Thank you. I would like to take that opportunity.
In answer to the question on the sort of chicken and egg question, as I tried to make clear in my evidence to Module 3, which I've tried to compress for the second part of Module 4, I think the concentration of ownership issue has been fundamental over the last 30 years in producing the kinds of problems and issues that have emerged over the last year. I deliberately go back 30 years and I gave the timelines I say in my Module 3 evidence.
There's one sentence from the last paragraph of that Module 3 evidence which I'd just like to repeat, because I think it answers your question, which is:
"The danger to democracy of an overly concentrated media is not simply in closing down the number of potential voices but in the undemocratic exercise of corporate power, which, if unchecked, can distort the democratic process by wielding too much influence over elected governments."
So for me the first issue is the wielding of undemocratic power, corporate power, by organisations to whom governments have been in thrall, and one organisation in particular, which is News Corporation. I also outlined in my Module 3 evidence my own involvement, during the 1980s and early 1990s, in the Labour Party, where I saw at first hand how an opposition that was desperate to get back into power was falling over itself to try and find a way of accommodating what they perceived to be the most important route to power. And an awful lot of what has happened over the last year, I think, falls into that category of unaccountable corporate power.
So that's a long answer to your question of which comes first. I'm not suggesting that had we had the existing structures of press self-regulation that would have been sufficient because dealing with the ownership issue would have solved everything, but I do think that they are coming at the issue from two different approaches and the ownership approach is as important, if not more important, than the bottom up. That's the top down approach. The press regulation -- the mechanics of press regulation, if you like, is the bottom up approach, but I would absolutely want to emphasise the importance of understanding where ownership fits into where we've got to today.
Which brings me to the exchange that you had with Damian. I do not believe it is necessary at all to get into the nitty-gritty of numbers, caps, percentages, how many newspapers there ought to be, how many media organisations there ought to be. I absolutely think -- and I think this fits with the Inquiry's remit as it's laid down. Notions of plurality, notions of cross ownership are absolutely within the remit and I think it's perfectly okay, I would have thought, to be able to lay down high level principles, high level policy principles, and say: "This is what we want in a democracy. In a healthy, vibrant, dynamic democracy, this is the way Parliament ought to be taking this. These are the principles [I've laid out four or five which hopefully we can go into in a little bit more detail in terms of plurality] but it is up to you, Parliament, and you, the regulator, to decide precisely how you get to that position."
So I don't believe personally that the Inquiry needs to go beyond the kind of high level statements that we've seen in, for example, the 2001 paper on media ownership under the Labour government or the 1995 Green Paper on media ownership from the then Conservative government. They're very good statements of high level principle, and for me, that will suffice.