Sir, that was, in the order I'm taking them, the first point I wanted to make.
Then the second one, which is really very short, is just that, as I have said, there are, I think, 14 people we know of, not all of them worked at the News of the World, but most of them did, who have been arrested. They occupy or occupied some key positions at the paper, from reporter up to editor, as is well known. If one was going to find out what had happened and who knew what inside the paper, you would need to ask those people. Even if you have documents, as Mr Jay and indeed the police have pointed out, you need to check with the people who were there at the time that the documents mean what you think they mean.
It is inevitable that those people are not going to be answering questions in full whilst they have been arrested and there is the prospect of criminal prosecutions.
The effect of that is that we, as their ex-employers, cannot obtain a full account of what happened and nor, we would suggest, will the Inquiry get one. The risk of investigating that sort of territory is that it can only be half a job, and that is extremely dangerous and would not result in satisfactory conclusions.
We would say that there are great practical difficulties in really digging into that area at all at this stage, and it is better left for the moment for the police and, if there are any, the criminal courts to deal with prosecutions.
Lastly, there is the question of how that all fits with the terms of reference. It is, we think, worth putting them in their chronological context.
As you know, sir, the police Inquiry which is carrying on now, Operation Weeting, began in January this year upon the delivery of further information by News International. That Inquiry had been in existence for six months when this tribunal was established, and when the Prime Minister was addressing the House of Commons on 13 July, before the terms of reference were finalised, he noted that eight people had then be arrested, including, as it happens, the government's ex-director of communications, Mr Coulson.
It was on 13 July that the Prime Minister noted that the police investigation was in very competent hands and fully resourced, and he was anxious to reassure the House of Commons on those points. He said that the Inquiry into wrongdoing, that is this Inquiry, could not take place in full until the criminal proceedings had been concluded, that is why the terms of reference are in two parts, as we know.
If one looks at the terms of reference, there is, we would suggest, a clear indication of the difference. Part 2, paragraphs 3 and 6, quite clearly requires a detailed Inquiry into what was going on within News International, and as appropriate, other organisations within the media. Paragraph 3 is:
"To enquire into the extent of unlawful or improper conduct within News International, other newspapers organisations, and as appropriate, other organisations within media."
Paragraph 6 is:
"To enquire into the extent of corporate governance and management failures at News International and other newspaper organisations."
There is no doubt that that is the micro level.
When one goes back to part one, all one has is a general requirement to enquire into the culture of practices and ethics of the press in general.