Mr Owens, there are a number of places in this transcript where you mention medical records. Can we turn over the page and look at paragraph 60, please. You say:
"If I'm honest, they'll think it's not someone from inside the clinic. I think that is the last place they'll think, although they might think it at some point, so that's another process that whereby if you work on staff, it's just worth remembering we may well come back to you and say, 'We need a bit more', and then it becomes a bit more risk."
Then your next answer:
"Yeah, you could be, exactly, substantiated, I guess. Difficult, isn't it? I have never had any cosmetic surgery but I suspect there is a record in the clinic of that surgery taking place. It is not like the NHS, obviously, where you phone up and they tell you about an operation and that's happened on such a date, as it's private. What we would not want to do is contact the clinic at all, as if we contact the clinic, it is also suggests you also know where it happened and that might be quite worrying for you guys."
Then you say:
"So we would not be able to contact the clinic, but what we would do, if he were to get a denial from the agent, then we would come back to you and say, 'Is there any more information that you can give us?' And if you can say you could give us some kind of confirmation that that treatment was taking place -- your friend would probably know more about this sort of thing than ours."
"She works in the admin section," says Mr Atkins, and then you say:
"So there is going to be a document?"
It's plain, isn't it, that there, again, you're explaining to Mr Atkins that if he enters into the business of providing you with information, there may come a time when you come back asking for documentary proof?