No, sir, I'd be very happy to do so.

Yes, sir. I don't disagree with any of that.

We have a figure above 702 who we think are likely to have been victims but, for one reason or another, we're unable to contact those people. That's why there's a discrepancy in the figures between paragraphs 44 and 45.

Yes. I think the last time I gave evidence we were still in the process of notifying victims and potential victims of phone hacking. We've completed that process now as far as we can insofar as we could identify the victims who we think have been likely to have ...

Yes, there is.

Yes. The co-operation is exactly the same in terms of the make-up of the MSC team that deals with our offices, and now we deal entirely through the lawyers.

Yes.

We'll obviously request now further documentation from the MSC as a result of what we've discovered in respect of the stolen mobile phones, and we're hopeful that that will produce further relevant information which will then lead us to the expert services, and when we reach them ...

Yes. As a result of the material that we've had provided to us from the MSC, it seems that on occasions we've found that material has been downloaded from and is in possession of News International titles which appear to have come from stolen mobile telephones.

It appears ...

But continuing on, sir, to date we've made six arrests under the Computer Misuse Act and/or in respect of offences of handling stolen goods, subjects of which are all on police bail pending completion of the arrest phase and further investigation. As in the other cases, in due ...

It absolutely does, because we can't look at every piece of documentation. We have to be careful about how we search it and what criteria we put in that -- in our questions of the data.

Yes. "Tuleta" is a kind of over-arching name for a number of discrete investigations. We're conducting an assessment of 101 separate allegations of data intrusion. These include allegations of phone hacking, computer hacking, improper access to medical, banking and other personal records.

In order to undertake this assessment, we ...

Well, the MSC would say the result of the review was the material that they had disclosed to us, but we haven't received or -- I understand there is no formal report as a result of their review.

Yes. These paragraphs I'm attempting to explain, as asked in my Section 21, how co-operation has worked.

We opened our investigation, as we say, on the basis of full co-operation, and the MSC then conducted their own internal review of the Sun, which was not a request made by ...

Yes. We've -- we asked for a response by 18 July to our request for evidential material, which we think are in the possession and control of both Trinity Mirror and Express News Group. We've had those responses.

Trinity Mirror Group have asked us to obtain a production order ...

Yes. As I say, ultimately the public interest test is a matter for the CPS, but we make an assessment ourselves as well around public interest as to whether the alleged criminal conduct can be justified as being in the public interest, as well as whether there are grounds to ...

Yes. This describes another case we're investigating, where again the public official is a prison officer at a different high security prison. And again, that individual's partners has facilitated the payments into their account. These payments are from Trinity Mirror. They were made between February 2006 and January ...

Yes, that's right, sir.

This relates to one case where the public official was a prison officer at a high security prison during the periods when the payments were made and the related stories were published.

In this case, the individual's former partner has acted as the conduit and facilitated the payments into ...

Yes. Before I do, when I go on to talk about developments in our investigation, I have in some cases used the word "alleged" but I haven't repeated it throughout. I think I said this on a previous occasion when I gave evidence. Where I talk about these developments ...

Yes. Elveden to date has conducted 41 arrests. Broken down, that's 23 current or former journalists, four police officers, nine current or former public officials and five individuals who acted as conduits for corrupt payments. There are currently files at the CPS for three police officers and one journalist ...

No.

I think I have.

Yes, the re-numbering has caused us to miss that. That should read "the non-journalist referred to at paragraph 13".

Yes.

Yes. 15 current and former journalists have been arrested and interviewed in relation to conspiracy to intercept communications. 12 of those remain on pre-charge bail, 11 of whom are due to return to various police stations tomorrow, 24 July, other than one individual who has been bailed to 2 August ...

Yes. The pause was from the middle of May until -- I think we then got more disclosure in the middle of June. 14 June, I think, was when we got our next disclosure. And it's continued since that date.

It took place fairly recently. At the beginning, when we began the enquiries, all contact was through the lawyers; then these were other lawyers, Burton Copeland. Then Mr Lewis and Mr Greenberg were introduced to help facilitate the co-operation, which they did. And in mid-May this year, following a development ...

That's correct.

Investigating all of these investigations -- and they're numerous -- we've worked obviously closely with the CPS, and they have advised us regarding potential offences. We've sought legal advice and in respect of both individual and corporate offences, and also in relation to our police powers and our options ...

That's correct.

Yes, sir.

Yes.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, sir.

I understand.

Of course, of course.

Yes, absolutely, and again, the MSC make sure they manage the disclosures for that reason and we don't seek to act against such sources.

Yes, we can, sir. That's the -- that goes really to the heart of the investigation.

As we said earlier, we're very mindful of Article 10 and the issues regarding public interest, and we work very closely with the CPS to look at every strand of our investigation and assess the public interest. Ultimately, it's not for me. It is first for the CPS ...

They're certainly not ones which involved just the odd drink or a meal to police officers or other public officials. These are cases in which arrests have been made involving the delivery of regular, frequent and sometimes significant sums of money to small numbers of public officials by journalists ...

Yes, I am.

Exactly. It is hoped that as we progress and do more enquiries that we will identify corrupt public officials, but at the moment certainly that's true.

Yes, and that's really by reference to comments being made in staff risking losing their pension or their job, the need for care and the need for cash payments.

There's also an indication of what we would describe as "tradecraft"; in other words, hiding the cash payments to ...

Yes. The payments have been made not only to police officers but to a wide range of public officials. So there are categories as well as police: military, health, government, prison and others. This suggests that payments were being made to public officials who were in all areas of public ...

That was true at the time.

That's true.

Empty.

Yes, it was, yes.

One Sun journalist arrested in November last year. We then had further disclosure from the MSC on the 18th and 24 January this year, and these disclosures led to arrests made on 28 January of four Sun or News International employees and one serving police officer, and then a further ...