Thank you.

Thank you.

Absolutely not.

The contact that I've had, which led to this part of our submission, our statement, was with police press officers, and my clear understanding following those discussions was that that was what they worked to, that that was a modus operandi in the press office that everyone adhered to ...

Yes, indeed. If one visits police stations normally those gifts are on prominent display and the sense one has is that they belong to the force, that they are not subject to individual ownership. So yes, I think that is an absolutely correct point.

I think the Police Service very often is in a position where it has to provide offence to people, and I think turning down gifts is probably not the most serious of those, and I think, frankly, if it were made very clear that the Police Service is no longer ...

Yes, I think we would take that view and we would certainly be making this point in responding to the HMIC or service consultation on this, that it would be better to draw some very tight definitions to help staff and officers in the better performance of their duties.

I've been interested to hear some of the discussion whilst sitting in the Inquiry today, and it certainly does seem to me that if we take a very wide definition of hospitality, attending a conference and eating a dinner at that conference with tens or potentially hundreds of other ...

I think both.

Yes, I think that is fair. I was struck in the albeit limited conversations I had with UNISON members who do work in press for the police that there were numerous occasions that they cited where contact with the press had been beneficial, that it had produced results in terms ...

Sure. I would like to think that as an outcome certainly of the HMIC review and potentially also of this Inquiry, that work be done to review the effectiveness of whistle-blowing mechanisms within the Police Service and to examine whether those current procedures have been used, whether they have been ...

Sure. In terms of my work, the figures that are provided at the beginning of the witness statement in terms of the number of members we represent gives you an indication of what proportion of my work relates to police staff, and it is the majority of the work that ...

Yes. I think we start from a presumption that they should be the same, but I think looking in detail at roles would be a part of that investigation and consideration.

No, I think it would be fair to say that were we engaged in the process of developing those rules, there would be an element of proportionality that might have to apply in the application of X, Y and Z, and that the role and occupation might be taken into ...

I think one would want to see rules which covered all eventualities, so there would be potentially the on-the-record conversation between the senior investigating officer and/or his police staff equivalent, but there might also be more informal contacts. Police staff press officers, for example, who we do represent, might ...

Yes, we would take that position.

There is a common code of professional standards that was previously in place only for police officers. We certainly took the view as a union that in a service that aspires to be a one culture service, where officers and staff are working together as equals within teams, that actually ...

I think the reality is that police staff are less likely to be involved in the sort of contacts with the media that the Inquiry is particularly concerned with, because of their relationship with investigations. My conversations with UNISON members who are police press officers suggest that it would be ...

Quite a different set of circumstances. So yes, we would expect the police force in question to be providing that guidance to its staff.

Yes, I think it was our clear view that we would not ordinarily expect to be guiding our members who might work in either a press capacity or indeed an operational capacity in relation to their contact with the press around operational matters. Clearly the union will advise its members ...

I think the terms of reference and indeed the already published "Without fear or favour" document does indicate that HMIC wants this matter to be dealt with, and whilst we will have some views that I think possibly we'll explore today about where the line might be drawn around ...

We would expect, as has been the case with all HMIC consultations certainly since I've been doing this job, that UNISON will be contacted as a stakeholder, as a representative body within the Police Service, and that our views and the views of our members' branches would be sought ...

But I think that is an important observation, yes.

Yes. Of course I can't verify that is the case.

Yes.

I followed up the very small number of responses that I received, and the impression I had from talking to colleagues was a perception that the Inquiry was predominantly concerned with matters that related to the Metropolitan Police and that some of the issues and concerns that the Inquiry was ...

Well, I can confirm that of the 49 responses that were solicited, I received two responses. That is an extremely low response rate. We would normally expect to get at least half of our potential respondents to communicate with us. It seems on this matter that for whatever reason, and ...

That's correct.

That is right.

The Superintendents Association, yes, indeed.

Correct.

Yes. I think the important distinction is that we represent those individuals who are employed under a contract of employment with the Police Authority, that is until the election of police and crime commissioners, whereas a police officer is sworn into the office of constable and not technically an employee.

That's a figure that's changed quite remarkably in the last 10 or 15 years through a process called workforce modernisation or, in other quarters, civilianisation, where the roles previously undertaken by police officers are now very often undertaken by police staff, 999 call takers, forensic officers, investigators, custody ...

On average we would have about 50 per cent of the working population in membership. In each force.

No, I've never worked for the Police Service.

Yes.

That is correct.

They are.

Yes, please.

It's Ben Warner Priestley.