Thank you, sir.

Mm. And I think I would like to get over the point -- I hope it's come over -- is that I think the spirit of what Lord Stevens started is the spirit I'd like to continue with. I do want a good adult, open, challenging relationship with the press ...

No, sir. First of all, I owe you an apology because I've been calling Mr Jay "Mr May" for the entire inquiry, which is my mistake entirely. I got your name wrong. It wasn't that I misremembered. So I apologise.

But I think in terms of the Inquiry ...

But you know, we will try and keep them together as long as we can and we will certainly share our conclusions from that April meeting.

That's really helpful, sir. I think the -- one thing that we know already, for example, though, is that the HMIC talks about areas which Elizabeth Filkin doesn't. So, for example, it talks about how we work with people who procure contracts, that we need to monitor certain things ...

We expect to report in April, have a paper back to our management board in April this year. Then we'll share the outcome with the HMIC and if this Inquiry would like to see that --

That's correct, sir, yes.

It does. There may be an inquiry in ten years' time to say why ever did I do that, but I think the main thing for me is I prefer to monitor the risks of doing it than I would like to sustain the risks of not doing it. I ...

It is very different. The big -- obviously the big newspaper here -- there is only one: the Evening Standard. But the Evening Standard has both a local London effect but it also has a national impact too, not least of which is it feeds into the national dailies on the following ...

Definitely, yes. I mean, it's certainly something that I always see -- when -- on the occasions that I have met editors or senior people within a local newspaper or sometimes a national one, one of the things I -- particularly the local ones, say Merseyside, I always wanted to know what ...

I think a mixture of the two works quite well. I think if -- it seems to me the DPA work quite well. If the press office -- sorry, if the press require a lot of detail, say a set of crime statistics or they're inquiring about factual matters which the ...

If I was the investigator, that would be my starting point, to exclude that before I considered other motives, but of course there are potentially other motives.

I think that's unfortunate. Certainly I think the Police Service can show that it's taken these allegations seriously by the fact, as you explained, is that 200 people have at least had an internal discipline inquiry. Where it can be proved there's a breach of the criminal ...

I think so. First of all, it's serious. I would never dismiss the seriousness of it. Each incident is serious because -- for the reason I said before the Inquiry broke, that we have a duty to protect information, and we have a legal duty to protect information. So each ...

I am not -- it may always be that there could be more done, but I'm not sure the scale of the problem is such that there would be any need at the moment to increase the safeguards. They're fairly rigorous. First of all, there is a password access ...

I'm sorry, sir, I'm not sure I could give you exact details of numbers, but we could certainly provide the Inquiry with that detail if you would like it.

I think over the years it's been a chronic problem for the Police Service about unauthorised leaks of ...

That's right, sir.

Yes. For me, I don't care whether you're famous or you're a member of the community. You have the same expectations of privacy. So far as we can maintain it, from the information we have, we, the police, should not be promoting to the press that someone ...

That's right, sir, and I think the balance between what is public interest in a newspaper and what we would prefer to keep confidential I realise is a difficulty of judgment, but I feel strongly that police are expected to keep secrets. We're expected, on behalf of national ...

I think so. It's not conclusive evidence, but it's a starting point that builds an assumption that might be challenged later, but the person who has a duty and a policy that says that's what they should do, they have to explain, presumably, why they choose to ...

No, sir, I don't think so, but I think what it does mean is that if we do establish the source of the leak and then we ask them did they report that meeting, did they report their account, then there's a starting place for an investigation, both ...

Yes, sir. I think there is an irony there. One thing I would like to make clear -- I've tried to make it clear in my statement -- I would never argue for every leak to be investigated. I think you can drive yourself barmy, I think, if we did that ...

I'm afraid I'm not because I just don't know the outcome of those particular inquiries, but I think we tried to explain the statement -- if not, I can now -- which is that often this is started by a report within the press that indicates there is a ...

That's correct, sir, yes.

I think just to offer -- you might imagine that after this Inquiry that it seems blindingly obvious, but I think equally it's a little difficult sometimes for retiring colleagues to make judgments on colleagues they've just left behind, when of course some the consequences of their tenure must ...

Yes, sir. I mean, it seems to me that something of the order between 12 months and two years is probably where this might settle, but I certainly would advise a cooling-off period.

It is, sir, yes.

That's right, sir, yes. This advice is more pointed towards procurement, so that there is not an inappropriate relationship develops between -- say, for example, I was to retire tomorrow and that I don't go and work with an organisation that is contracting with the Metropolitan Police, because one ...

That's right, sir, yes, although obviously the singular lead of the organisation.

The MOPC appoints -- actually, it doesn't directly appoint anyone now. What happened, back -- as I explain in the (inaudible), prior to the Police Authority existing, of course, the Home Secretary was the authority for the Metropolitan Police and appointed -- it's Crown appointment -- the Commissioner, the Deputy Commissioner and ...

That's right. Well, certainly in the Met. In the provinces it's assistant chief constable is the equivalent to commander.

I think so, sir. I think the more responsibilities that come with the job, the more you do have to be sensitive, again, to how people see if, even if it's well intended.

Yes, sir, that's right. If you bear in mind this is for 53,000 people in various roles, some who have not had a huge amount of training, some who have come into contact with the public quite regularly. I'd have very little excuse for not understanding the ...

Certainly, sir, yes. If there's any further advice or any judgments that this advice here is inaccurate or unhelpful, then of course we would reconsider. Or there's a better way of expressing the intention that lays behind these different appendices. It is a sad list, in a way ...

Yeah, I think that one of the other broad principles that goes along with this is that if you are offered a gift, the first thing to do is report it to someone else, rather than make the judgment yourself. If you have to make the judgment at the time ...

That's right.

That's right.

Thank you.

Broadly, yes. I mean, if it helps, perhaps, the Inquiry, the sort of things that sometimes happen in this area -- for example, in the time that -- I've been Commissioner now for around five months. Through the post, unsolicited, I will receive a copy of a book. It's neither ...

Yes, I think it's wise, certainly for very senior people, to be more generous in their interpretation of this and to overreport rather than underreport. If they have nothing to hide, even if it's a private event, it's always better probably to explain. Because of course the ...

Sorry?

Yes. So therefore that type of question has to be asked. So clearly the person may be off duty or not at work, but the link is back to their employment, and it's that, really, that we're trying to capture there.

I think the other thing we have to be aware of is that sometimes -- and there's been criticism about attendance at sporting events in the past -- is that the offer you -- you need to enquire into who is making the offer. Is the organisation which is organising the event ...

Yes, yes, sir, by all means. I mean, there will be some grey areas where you have to look into it, but on the whole it's fairly clear.

That's it, really. It's not intended to capture people in their private moments when they're not -- that whatever they're doing has nothing to do with their professional responsibilities. This is purely if they are invited to a social event or an event or given a gift ...

It's an interim policy in the sense that we've adopted it from -- I think it was February, I think you referred to earlier -- that we adopt from February, interim in the sense that we're awaiting the outcome of the inquiry to see whether or not we should ...

(Nods head)

It does. If it helps, the page I have is 1 of 14 on the top right-hand corner.

Ah, okay.

And then page?