Yes.

Yes. I actually was -- I actually spoke to my office, who informed me at -- I can't remember the time. I think it was about maybe 9.15 am.

No. I think that I have to be extremely careful here, because obviously this is a live police investigation.

I wasn't told that the arrests were going to take place on the Saturday, no, absolutely not.

When -- I was contacted and told that my office were trying to get hold of me on the Saturday morning.

No, I wasn't.

That the arrests were to take place the following day?

I spoke to journalists who were involved in the original story, and they indicated to me that consent had been given. There is a quote in the original story from a Treasury spokesman, and I don't think that would have been provided if consent had not been given.

(Nods head)

Well, it's obviously an extremely sensitive issue.

This specific story, I would not have run without consent.

Yes.

Although -- one of the central allegations was obviously, as you've said, that the Sun had illegally obtained this information by hacking medical records, and the source, who I obviously don't want to attempt to identify -- and we were very careful to conceal that individual's identity -- he swore ...

I don't think the story would have been published without consent. I wouldn't have published it without consent.

Yes, but it was also addressing the fact that I'd researched the background to the story and -- there are probably other witnesses who you might be seeing at a later date who might be able to help you further on this, but my information was that consent had been ...

Yes.

Because I think there's another element to it.

Can you repeat that?

I don't think it's a mundane issue that the cast of Coronation Street were subject to a full body search. I think that's highly unusual. But yes, the Al-Qaeda element of it was wrong and we corrected the story pretty swiftly.

I believe we were contacted by a source which had details about a live Coronation Street show which was where guests and stars were being subject to a full body search, and the information that we received was that this was related to a fear that -- of an Al Qaeda ...

Well, a number of them I don't believe are in bad taste. There was one you didn't refer to, which has a photo of three female jockeys and in the submission it says that we would never picture male sports stars in that way, and I disagree with ...

Well, I think Page 3 is a matter of taste. Yeah, obviously I think with someone with transgender issues, we've crossed line in terms of the code, and as you know, there was a PCC complaint upheld against us by -- which was taken by a transgender group, which we ...

Yes.

It's not our finest moment, I admit, but I would hope you will see some of the examples I've given of recent times and that would be evidence that we have moved forwards.

Yes.

-- did kind of team up with her, and I think that a number of those male contestants did actually take legal action against the TV company as a result.

All I'm saying -- the TV series -- I don't know if you're familiar with -- was called "There's something about Miriam", and it involved a transsexual who was placed in a house, who was basically put in a house with a number of male contestants, some of whom ...

I don't think this is our greatest moment, to be honest. I think it's actually a valid feature, but some of the language in it is not ideal and it's something that I possibly wouldn't use now. But you have to -- to put it into context ...

Oh sorry, yes.

Yes, I think it's worth exploring, and as I say, it's certainly something that we've been doing informally anyway.

Yes.

Yes. I mean, I think that does already happen with the PCC, actually, because they'll often bring parties together --

I mean, that's really a formalisation of what we're already doing informally at the paper, in terms of -- we had -- the Samaritans group came in last week, for instance, and spoke to the staff. You're talking about a more formalised method?

In fact, one of the journalists who wrote one of the articles was invited to speak as a transgender conference and I would be quite keen for -- I spoke to you last time about some of the workshops that we've had for journalists about sensitive issues, and I would ...

Well, I'm making attempts to do that, yes, in the news pages, yes.

I think maybe looking back, this does look a bit insensitive, but what I would refer you to is in the recent past we've done several similar stories about transgender individuals and -- there was one only last week, in fact, involving a woman called Crystal Warren, and I think ...

Yes.

Yes. Several months in.

I think the word "tart" has been used in headlines referring to prostitutes for many, many decades. I do think in this context it does grate with me and it's something I would think about greatly before doing again.

Mm.

Well, I -- look, the picture was supplied to us by Alison Jackson, who, as I say, is a very, very well-respected female artist, photographer, who specialises in these kind of stunted images.

I disagree with that. I don't think it eroticises sexual harassment. I think it's an amusing picture which would neither have offended, I wouldn't think, Pippa Middleton or Prince Harry.

Well, the Sun is -- its humour and its light-hearted nature has really been the key to its success, in my view. This is actually a picture provided by Alison Jackson, who is a very, very well-respected photographer who spoofs different scenes. This shot showed Prince Harry pinching Pippa Middleton's ...

I can't see the exact words, but perhaps. Do you have it?

I think it was simply a feature where a new form of underwear was being road-tested by a female, and it was tested in a light-hearted ways, and actually I think if you read the women's verdict, she does actually say that it made her feel quite uncomfortable wearing ...

I think it's a humorous term. I mean, it's obviously referring to the two rather large bald headed men who appeared on Eastenders. I think it's a comedy mechanism which some people may have found funny; some may not.

I think this has to be put in context. This was on the Bizarre column, which Gordon Smart, who you heard from -- it's written with -- it has a certain character to it, maybe slightly laddish humour, and it's meant to be humorous. I'm sure Kelly Brook wasn ...

I do.

Page 6.

Got it.