Yes, we have. Certainly with respect to Google and Twitter, but that's more as a -- in situations where they have been custodians of the information, the same thing with, perhaps, Wikipedia as well, where information has been brought into these media forums and that we've engaged them and ...

I've had three cases which have involved the dissemination of information via the Internet, either as a result of, if you like, viral rumours or other means. They've all had different consequences and different dynamics to them.

It's an extremely difficult problem to confront. I remember the ...

I think unless -- there's two parts to that, isn't there? There's those people who have had stories published about them where they feel that to contest those stories and to commence proceedings is either continuing the pain and therefore become deterred from doing so, or don't ...

I think I do. I think recently there have been fewer stories which transgress. I think historically what occurred was that, you know, the law of privacy evolved gradually so that originally the reason why the press were putting stories to us was to evaluate the risk of defamation damages ...

Out of your Inquiry? I'm sure that -- if I can morph that into perhaps a further question, I think if all that comes out of this is a more effective way to facilitate a body that investigates and regulates and trains our media so that it is an effective ...

Sure. I actually think that the biggest separator has occurred perhaps in the period from the summer of this year onwards, and then before then from about the mid-part of 2010. So I'm dealing with the time period where there has been the greatest sensitivity and probably the fewest ...

You give a number of time periods there.

Thank you.

I'm never quite sure to the extent of which the decision-making of an England manager is detached from the marketing and PR people who operate it, but you're absolutely right. There may be positions within public life, such as the captain of a national team, where standards of ...

I think that there are distinctions between the different classes or groups of those to whom you refer. Like you, if I -- if one of our elected officials was transgressing in a way that diminished the standing which we should hold them in, then I would want to know about ...

I agree to a degree.

Yes, I accept that.

Mm-hm.

Not necessarily. I believe that there has, over the last few years, I suppose, since the evolution and development of privacy law in this country and the passing of the Human Rights Act, been a slightly strange attitude and an opaque view about what is and what is not in ...

Correct.

Yes.

-- into that case. So I wouldn't take a case which I didn't believe was likely to have good or very good prospects of success, and so therefore one would only choose an appropriate case to enter into a CFA on.

Sorry, can I just interject? You will appreciate that when one assesses whether a CFA is appropriate to enter into as a solicitor, we weigh up the merits of the case very carefully, because we're taking a significant risk in investing our time --

No.

Excluding the phone hacking cases that we're conducting at the moment, no more than a handful. Maybe six or seven.

No. I don't accept that for a moment.

Let's look at a case -- for example, you mentioned the highest case at £60,000. That's no more than sort of a very gentle parking fine in proportion to the turnover and the financial returns on publishing very high-profile ...

Mm-hm.

On some, yes, I do. I've only done so for the last, I suppose, four or five years maximum. It's -- I did it for -- I started to do it for two or three reasons, and it's not only in the area of media or privacy-related or defamation-related ...

I think that this particular instance was particularly disgraceful, actually. I think that the notion that they had any belief in the integrity of the story was completely set aside by what we learnt later on. This appeared to be an opportunity by newspapers generally to buy a video which ...

Mm.

Yes. I think that there was a point where so many people were -- there was so much in the way of suggestion and inference that his name was being bandied about as the likely instigator or perpetrator, and it was being traded on the Internet, and so he felt that ...

-- was resolved.

There were a group of footballers who were staying at the Grosvenor House Hotel. They were the subject of a complaint by a young lady that she had been sexually assaulted and raped. I acted for the footballers concerned. Unfortunately for one of my clients, he was also staying in ...

I suppose it's an example of how a newspaper might seek to bring into the public domain information about which, if they brought into the public domain themselves, they would suffer either risk of defamation actions or risk of privacy actions, and I suppose in that particular instance, the ...

Yes.

Certainly. Let me be absolutely clear about this. Seeking and obtaining an anonymity order is no easy thing. They are extremely hard fought. Those on the opposite side, our adversaries at the media, do not take them lightly, and the judges who hear the application want to be assured that ...

Increasingly rarely. I think it's proportionate to the size and nature and possible impact of the story. The bigger the story, the less likely the opportunity is given. I've run probably as many, if not more than any other -- I've run more pre-publication anonymity injunctions or -- than ...

David Sherborne, who I've instructed, as I have Hugh Tomlinson, and I have debated over the last ten years as to the effect or the potential to bring privacy actions where there is the notion of false privacy, where in order to contest the information, the private information, you ...

Yes, there is a technical distinction between the two.

Well, I think it's about the progression of behaviour. I had very good working relationships with most of the national newspapers. I was probably, and still am, one of their principal adversaries, and you know, it's not just a question of whether or not you're an adversary ...

I have had accounts from several young women concerned. I think there was a tariff that almost evolved over time, some of it on a competitive basis between the different newspapers, because obviously if the story was particularly high profile, the target person was of particular interest or the young ...

I don't accept that at all, actually. I think that the press are extremely adept at identifying and calculating opportunities and then exploiting them, whether it be from chequebook journalism and the persuasion of young girls to sell their stories on a sort of regular basis, all the way ...

So that's -- that's what I've seen, that's how I've seen it develop.

It certainly was not quite as prevalent in the same sort of guise in the mid-1990s. I think it became more organised and more orchestrated as we sort of turned into the early ...

I believe it's a business model that's become almost dependent and infatuated with sensationalist and titillating stories, to the point where the facility that -- and this is just my opinion, as I say -- that phone hacking or unlawful surveillance provided allowed those that were utilising it and reviewing ...

Yes. That's to what it relates.

It's all messages and journalists left messages for me as well. So yes, it's messages to and from.

No. I was actually in the hearing at the time, and I -- the way in which it worked was that I would leave messages for those who were representing my client and they left messages for me, and they also received contact from third parties -- in this case, it was ...

I understand that, and obviously I've spoken to -- or I'm aware that those that left the messages for me also recall what was said at that time as well, but I appreciate that it's in contest.

I was. Actually, it's become almost a regular event. A specific officer was assigned -- Michelle Roycroft(?) was assigned to me and to my clients, and I was shown the information that related to my name and the detail of that, and it jumped out of the page at me ...

Well, I became interested in the development of the information that came out of the various criminal trials that had taken place, but I asked the clients, I suppose in around about 2007, would they like to take matters forward. By 2008, a number of them had indicated that they ...

Yes, it was. It was a -- it was -- it was a private time not only for the clients so far as circumstances that related to them, but it was also a matter for them to seek and obtain legal advice, which is obviously professionally privileged, legal professional privilege.

Sorry? Occasionally -- occasionally, the clients need to be told the realities of what can occur as well as the legal advice of the circumstances in which they find themselves. Hopefully, I provide a blend of both. And they wanted to come and see me and we knew that if I ...

Yes. As I say, I've acted on a variety of high-profile cases, and once again, this was an extremely high profile matter where there were two participant -- or clients involved and the press had different but equally intensive interest in both of them. There was obviously a connection between ...

I would say very regularly. Certainly in the period from about, I suppose, 2004, 2005 onwards, clients began to believe that coincidences were being replaced by more likely interception of some form or another. I recall quite clearly clients becoming irritated or frustrated and suspicious that private information was finding ...

I spoke with the client, who was quite a long way away from his normal residence, and we arranged for a meeting place in the Oxfordshire countryside at a hotel. I have absolutely no idea who followed me. The likelihood is it was probably a member of the paparazzi or ...