The transcripts of the official inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press.
There's no difference. I mean, perhaps we should have checked.
On 21 September, yeah. They were taken then.
No, I'm not sure I do, sorry. I understand the Lily Allen pictures, yes.
That would be the picture of the two of them together, yeah.
Probably not, no. I mean, as I say, I've thought about it a lot this last weekend, knowing I was coming here today, and we got it spot on in Portugal, in my view, but we may have not got it -- we may not have been so good when ...
If I were going through that, I wouldn't be happy, no. With children in the car, of course not.
I do. You know, I'm a dad of a little girl -- when I say a little girl, not so little now, but she would have been seven at the time, and, you know, I felt tremendous sympathy with the McCanns and their situation. You know, looking back on it ...
I've read that evidence, yes.
I know this is going to sound like I'm copping out but this is all the same time, I think. But referring to that picture, I think that was a miscaptioned image from normally a very, very good agency.
I don't think we thought there was a problem with the picture, to be honest with you. It was in a public street. There were no visible signs of distress, like I say. I don't think we felt any need to ring the agent, to be honest. I ...
Sorry, I've gone blank on that. Say that again?
I think so, yeah.
Well, she -- I think perhaps the fact that Lily Allen was heavily pregnant would have been a major consideration for us.
Yeah, Lily Allen.
Sorry, could you repeat that for me, please?
Well, in a private -- I mean, I think it's in the PCC code, isn't it? I mean, in a private place. They were on a public street. There were no visible signs of distress. I'm sure we checked it out at the time. There doesn't seem ...
It was in a public place.
Yeah, yeah. From memory, pictures taken in the street, I don't think there was any -- there was nothing bad as in regard -- there was no bad behaviour by the photographer, as far as I can see, and I'm sure that was all checked out at the time.
I don't think we bought them on 21 September. I think we may have bought them once with the news of the birth had come out.
I think I would probably have made the same decision. We didn't -- as I say, we left the area before we had the note from the PCC.
I don't know. I think it's a difficult line we walk sometimes. I do, really.
Again, as I say, I'm not trying to look for excuses. I wasn't in that week. I mean, I'm not trying to use that as an excuse, but ...
It's a difficult call. As Gordon was saying, Mr Grant is of huge interest to our readers, and I think -- you know, he's an A list Hollywood actor who everyone's very interested in. I think -- I mean, we were there two days. I don't think we ...
He did, yeah. I've since spoken to the photographer and he tells me that he was away from the area when the request was received. I mean, we're only talking half an hour or an hour, but I think once he'd had the conversation with Mr Grant ...
I think we left the before that. We left the area before that.
But this is all information I've obtained from my deputy who was in charge that week, so --
I believe it was. But I haven't -- I have to point out here, by the way -- I meant to say this at the beginning -- this information -- I was on annual leave when this happened.
We also sent -- I think, from memory, it's the same photographer back the following day, on the Tuesday. I think he may have stayed probably most of the day until he had a conversation with Mr Grant where I think Mr Grant was asking him what he was doing ...
Following the announcement of the birth, we sent a freelance photographer down to the home. He was there, I think, from about midday on that day. I think when he arrived he may have seen -- well, I know he saw Ms Hong on the public street and took a picture ...
Yeah, but he reports to me directly. He sits on my desk.
Yes, it is exactly the same. Sorry, I got a bit confused.
I'm sorry, no. I've got a bit confused.
Yeah, I mean, I am effectively the picture editor for the online edition. I have a person on my desk who specifically deals with the online edition and he comes to me all the time to ask me advice on whether -- can we put this picture up, can we put ...
Well, we can police it in the office but I can't police it outside, no. If one of my photographers was caught doing that, they'd be out the door, simply. It's just not acceptable. You know, we watch out for it, but I think that -- I can ...
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