Thank you.

Right.

-- appreciate that.

The other point I was going to make was that should those new arrangements be made, that perhaps the CRA, along with other bodies like the Society of Editors, the NUJ, representatives from broadcasting and online branches of the industry, might be able to assist in some sort ...

No, I --

Oh no, I just wanted to make that clear, that it would be through me rather than through Jeff.

-- embracing the possibility that records need to be kept. It's probably best done through me, and I would like to take up that offer.

Well, I would like to reflect on something that you asked of, I think, Jeff Edwards. I think you invited him to arrange for the CRA to draft some sort of guidelines --

Yes.

Exactly.

No.

Exactly, yes. I think they should do. I mean, those national newspapers that are not represented are not represented by choice by them.

They do, yes.

-- or any commitment to those three principles, then there might be a risk then of letting in somebody who decides that they're just going to bust it wide open, and that would be quite damaging.

Well, that would mean that basically anyone could join if they were an experienced reporter, and what we've tried to preserve, what we've tried to take to the police, is the idea that if they brief us, they are talking to people who have a commitment to crime ...

That's fair, yes.

Some people, I think, could perceive it as an elite group. I don't think they -- I don't think they -- it's not a correct perception, but I can see, looking from the outside, particularly where crime reporters get exclusives they believe might have come through CRA channels or ...

Mm-hm.

That's correct, yes. When I first started, there were one or two home affairs reporters in the CRA. Now there are a lot more. There will probably be a lot more in the future.

Yes.

The certain parts were the bits at the end, the bits that covered "avoid alcohol", that section. I think if you look at it, there's a handy traffic light system where "avoid" has a red -- is in red lettering and something where caution is being urged has amber and ...

Mm.

That was -- I think that particular story was announced at a press conference, a general press conference. I'm not sure if it would really interest the Daily Express readers but I do know that the background of that particular thing, that there were a lot of former and serving ...

Mm.

Exactly.

That would be fair, yes.

I think the latter.

Indeed.

But I know the briefing had to be done. It had to be done then. So maybe they just said, "We're not going to have any problems with this at all if we have it non-attributable."

But if there was -- for whatever reason -- I am just not privy to the reason why the decision was taken to be non-attributable.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I know. With hindsight, it's -- it's a -- it's difficult to -- he probably could have done it himself, but I think -- I do know that if they were going to do it on the record, they might have had to check with other agencies, other authorities, the French ...

No, it was to inform us so that we could publish the true level of violence, which obviously was terribly shocking but it did secure the kind of publicity that they wanted. Massive publicity on television, radio, in the newspapers the next day, and I think when the man gave ...

There was a particularly brutal double murder in south London. The victims were two young French men. I believe they were postgraduate students, only here for possibly a year or a short time. They were attacked in the home of one of them in south London and they were tied ...

Yes.

I can only recall those two other gifts to Lord Condon and Lord Stevens. So in my time, I can only think of those three. So I think it's acknowledged the -- certainly in police circles, not only in this country but probably abroad, the role that Peter Clarke played ...

Yes.

I think probably now is the right time to give that some careful thought, and it might be beneficial to crime reporters and CRA members in the future if they did have a code of conduct or a statement of principles. I think we would have to sit down and ...

Indeed.

Yeah.

No.

-- of conduct. In my time in the CRA, I've not seen one, so ...

It's true to say we don't have a code. I think there was a code many years ago. I think Jeff Edwards, when he was at the Inquiry last week, made reference to the code --

That's right. It currently stands at £30.

Yes.

That's right.

Yes.

I might do, but it's -- it would fall within my remit, certainly, and another reporter possibly would do that because there was a political element to that. It certainly wouldn't be in the mainstream. That kind of story wouldn't be in the mainstream of my work.

That's part of it, certainly, but it's also to promote the good work that the police do, that certainly the CID do, and that's where the public's appetite for crime stories is; it's in the work of the CID rather than the broader police story.

A crime reporter reports on the investigations that are current, and maybe on witness appeals to help to assist the police, to get witnesses to come forward. I see it as following that investigation through to the start of the court case, reporting on the court case and reporting on ...