The transcripts of the official inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press. More…
My Lord, thank you.
Yes. And others. I mean, others who had been involved in the operation, I think. I can't say that for certain.
Yes.
But that's what happened, by the way. The person that was in charge of putting it all on the system was the DS that was in charge of the original inquiry, so that absolutely was what happened.
But --
Okay.
Yes but --
-- on 23 July or whatever it was, I asked all this thing -- I was so concerned about our inability to analyse the material in any shape or form that I asked for it to be put on the HOLMES system. You have that email in your pack, where I've ...
I mean, in fairness -- in fairness to me --
I know.
No.
At that point in time, it was just -- there was nothing there that would say would I put 40 detectives, because that's what it would have taken, for several months if not years, to do that exercise, when there was no evidence to support that as a resource decision ...
Sir, I absolutely take your point, my Lord. It's just that at that point in time -- forget what's happened since --
There's nothing I'm trying to hide around it. It's in my diary, even a private appointment.
I'd imagine so, yes.
Yes, I would absolutely know that Dick would know that Neil and I would be fighting about football and that would be absolutely in his knowledge, I would have thought.
It's three hours into this and that's defeated me, sorry.
You have to rephrase that in a slightly less wordy way, Mr Jay. Sorry.
Yes, and I -- I would have thought he did know, to be honest, but I can't -- if he says he doesn't know, he doesn't know, but in terms of the Shami Media contract, that was let a million miles away from me, and I made that absolutely ...
I wouldn't have seen to discuss it with Dick. Why would I? Dick certainly knew that I knew Neil Wallis and that he was a friend. Whether he knew that we went to the football together on the odd occasion we did, I don't see the relevance of ...
The perception -- I can't fault perception, because that's such a broad phrase, but I absolutely know and I guarantee that none of that played any part in my decision making. That's -- my conscience is completely clear on that.
No, I don't accept that.
Yes. My sort of resignation statement makes that clear.
Say again, sorry?
With no -- but my name was not -- that doesn't involve me at all.
Not for me.
No, no, no, I completely accept that and that is absolute due process, but it was the process they followed thereafter and the matters they could have considered, which they didn't, which they had before them, that's the bit I have an issue with.
Yes. And they had a range of facts which they could have considered which would have fully explained the position, and which they declined to do so. That is the bit I took issue with.
Yes, and I -- let me be clear. I have absolutely no issue with that. What I have the issue with is the fact they didn't consider salient facts which they had before them, and they took a decision to suspend on the basis of not a lot, and, you ...
I mean in terms of -- well, one only has to look at the evidence they considered and the way they considered it to know that they cannot possibly have reached the conclusions they did without that bias being there.
I strongly suspect they did.
No, no, no.
Absolutely right, yes, yes, but they're members of the committee, and they recused themselves and then decided to go out both before the meeting met and knowing the meeting was in progress and called for me to resign.
To some extent. I mean victim in that sense is a bit too strong a word, actually, on reflection. Some of it's the rough and tumble of senior life, but certainly there was some intrusion and certainly there was some inaccurate reporting around me.
Yes, I have it.
Sorry, those numbers don't mean anything to me.
I hadn't listened to the voicemail messages, Mr Jay.
Well that certainly (inaudible).
The modus operandi of the effect on your own phones. I was abroad, a particularly difficult weekend for the Met, where I was doing a lot of to-ing and fro-ing with both Dick Fedorcio and the Commissioner's office and every time a voicemail was left on my phone, I ...
Yes, and I've explained that, I think, in a Select Committee.
You've missed a significant chunk of work in between that. So the article comes out and raises a number of issues. We then set up a small team to scope and review that with the CPS. A number of people were interviewed, some under caution, some not. A full ...
