I don't think so. Thank you, sir, I think I've had the opportunity. Thank you very much.

I think, sir, that is about the transparency, so things like the idea that contact at the senior level at the Metropolitan Police is available for people to see on the Internet, so you can actually see whether an assistant commissioner is having meetings. It's also very much about ...

Yes, sir, and I think it's about being very clear on going back to some principles. So the first principle very much around: why are you, as an individual, having an interaction with the media? It comes back to the questions earlier on about: it takes place within a ...

Thank you, sir. It is different but not unique. Real local stories still break in boroughs across London, are dealt with by local journalists or have a footprint that is perhaps the Standard or LBC or very much a London feel to it. There is then the national dynamic that ...

Yes, sir.

Yes, I would. I don't think there's the currency about media issues in the Cumbrian context that there is in the national context here in London and the opportunities to do anything about it are far less limited in a Cumbria context, so it is a completely different ...

Yes, we have sought to address the interim position, and I've also, in meetings with journalists and colleagues, had that feedback in terms of this perception that somehow the Metropolitan Police has shut down. I think, given everything that's going on, there was always going to to be ...

Yeah, it's the fact of the contact and a general point about what was discussed. What we're not asking for is a verbatim note. So, for instance: "Craig Mackey, Deputy Commissioner, met three editors on this day", or "met a journalist in the outside of the court and ...

Yes, thank you. A number of things have been put in place since my arrival nine weeks ago in terms of work around new interim media guidelines, and they're currently being consulted on within the Metropolitan Police Service and they're due to come to management board for sign-off ...

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. It's a direct means of communication. It's very quick, instantaneous. As Gill says, it doesn't come without risks. It would be fair to say if I was doing an assessment of where I am now to where I was last year, Cumbria's probably a bigger ...

No.

So relatively, in the scheme of things -- and a superintendent's warning at that time was a discipline outcome in terms of the process.

I can only remember in relation to one. I don't know whether you can remember in relation to the other two, Gill?

No, they were police discipline investigations. There was no criminal intent in relation to those incidents.

Yes, thank you.

No, I -- now Gill reminds me of the case, I remember it well in terms of the circumstances around it. We were very strong as an organisation in terms of trying to follow up media leaks, and I think it was indicative that a colleague had felt sufficiently moved to ...

I don't remember the exactly detail. Gill, do you remember -- is that acceptable, sorry?

I think the reporting of the floods was overwhelmingly really good in terms of the way it was reported. In many ways, some members of the national media understood very quickly -- because they were out on the ground in West Cumbria, ie out and about -- understood the impact of what ...

I think -- as you've heard, I would characterise that sort of relationship and cycle for all of the media at a national level. So the print media, during the end of the incident and the time they remained predominantly in Whitehaven, which became the centre of this, that's ...

Yes, sir.

First of all, it's an understanding and appreciation of the scale of the media that arrive nowadays in relation to an incident of this magnitude and this complexity, and the challenges that brings. But I think, as Gill's covered, it's also the overwhelming feelings of the local ...

I think a number of things, if I may.

Yes, that's correct.

So these are very small communities where if you say -- and I won't -- to spare the families, some of the locations -- but some of the small villages, there aren't many people in them and when two people have been killed in that village, it gets out very, very ...

If I may assist, sir, some of it was around -- this wasn't the first critical incident that had happened in that part of the county and there was actually a funeral that day that this happened. So the national media were already there. So rolling news programmes are taking ...

I don't remember, honestly, in terms of that -- in terms of the level of detail around that, but the training was much more about working with the media, how to work with the media, and it went all the way through to -- Cumbria, as part of the selection for ...

No, it's dealt with as part of training. I refer to in my statement -- we refer to a process of training called PASS, which we've just brought in, which is around -- sorry, Cumbria have just brought in, which is around being very clear with people -- and given the ...

No, you've not missed a section. It's also specifically -- and it's covered in the back in terms of the register of interests forms -- it's very much about making sure that the Police Authority contractual relationships and other relationships are clearly above board in terms of where ...

I think this is the version that was in force then.

No, I -- it's not inconceivable that you can form a friendship with an individual going forward, but I think that's where you have to put personal and professional into very different camps in terms of doing it. I think in the current environment in -- that I was working ...

No, not currently.

No, not in terms of where I have worked. It's a much more besign local media environment in most of the places I've worked to date.

Not from the media per se in my roles where I've worked. Prodominantly most of the places I've worked have been relationships with local media. The only time the issues have changed is usually when there's been a significant major issue. In most of the forces I ...

For me, it's about proportion and balance. It might be entirely appropriate over a working lunch to have a sandwich, a pizza or a cup of coffee, but actually outside the working day in other environments, you begin to get to the point where you have to question (a ...

I would, unless they actually knew the individual in a social environment, and I would be more concerned if it was consistently the same person.

As a general purpose, I think it's -- I would use the -- I think someone's referred to it previously as the blush test in terms of it ought to be proportionate, appropriate. It ought to be the sort of thing that when you write it in the hospitality register ...

It was similar. That was bringing news groups from across the county. We found -- that was not long after I arrived as chief -- they actually became less and less well attended. So we stopped those from being an annual thing because in the reality, with a county that's nearly ...

Just about promoting relationships with the local media. Cumberland News Group, the north and west of the county -- most of the media are part of the Cumberland News Group and it was really about understanding where we were. It also gave us useful feedback, particularly me, on how we worked ...

Yes. One is in one register because it was paid for by the newspaper. The other one we paid for.

That's correct, yes.

I wouldn't describe us as "less than generous", but there's not a wide culture of hospitality. That's very much part of the community and where we were. It wasn't the practice. I think I met the editor of the News Group on two occasions over working ...

Very occasionally direct approaches, but more predominantly, they came as a result of either something we were putting out or a particular incident breaking or coming, at which point -- it's a fairly small building, the media team are one end of a long corridor, the chief officer team are ...

Yes, all my contact through the press office. If I may give you a typical example: Police Authority meetings, monthly, agendas would go out with backing papers, probably ten days before, the press office would send out something to all the local media contacts, saying, "Cumbria Police Authority is meeting ...

No. I don't think that's a fair reading in terms of that. It is around managing those long-term relationships for us. You know, actually as the Chief Constable with a strategic management team of the organisation, this is not something I could do on a daily basis, and ...

It does in some respects, yes, sir.

In that environment, sir, that would be incredibly difficult. It was also the first time I'd experienced what I would say -- would probably described as citizen journalists, so students standing in the queue behind national news reporters to do an interview with you. It's very difficult to say ...

I do have concerns about that, and I think the experience of the events in June tended to show how difficult the whole notion of going off the record is now. When you're faced with a room larger than this with 150 journalists there, it's very hard to ...

No, didn't surprise me. I didn't know the particular circumstances of the incident in Carlisle with the attack, but I think that's still a live case. But apart from that, no.