Thank you very much.

Yes.

Yes.

No. It's covered in my statement.

Yes, I prefer that.

I agree.

Yes, I agree.

Yes.

That specific point has already been aired on Newsnight, so it's public domain, but what I can do is I can give you the basis of my opinion in a document on that paragraph 36. I can give you further and better particulars of it.

Yes.

No, I'm trying to be --

Yes.

I have quite a long list.

Yes. So that's another bit that he's made generalised statements that it was widespread. The next point is Heather Mills has said -- she's my client -- has said to Newsnight and confirmed to me that a person other than Piers Morgan admitted to her at the Mirror Group ...

He interviewed Naomi Campbell and halfway through he said, "Have you got any questions?" and she asked him about phone hacking.

Right.

It is, GQ.

Yes, it does. I have to be careful because some of the -- I don't want to trespass on the police area, so I'm going to talk slowly to make sure I don't trip up.

In addition to the corner names and McMullen, of course Piers Morgan has ...

Yes, that's right.

Yes.

No, this is the most difficult area. This is -- I mean, the Internet to some extent, parts of the Internet are the Wild West, and we all know that, and America, unlike any other country, has a very different legal situation, so it is quite common and easy to post ...

Well, yes, the American example, but in fact -- an American film producer rang me and told me that's what happened because he spoke to the American newspaper and they said -- I can't go into full detail -- it is really difficult.

It's inferential evidence, yes.

Can I give examples without going into details that identify the private information? On one client, a story was laundered. It went -- it was planted in America. The newspaper, having been granted -- having offered undertakings with a public domain proviso, exported the story to America and then reported it a ...

I have firm evidence and inferences and anecdotal evidence from other lawyers, but if I go into the details of it, I break injunctions and people's privacy.

Yes.

Of course they can comment on the judicial process in the sense of, "Oh, well, I don't think that injunction should have been granted", but -- this is my opinion, my suspicion is: well, if they go to law, we'll give them a good trashing and it will deter ...

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, there's a degree.

Less -- it's less so some broadsheets, but generally it's universal, this sort of sniping: how dare someone complain about their privacy? I've seen it in the Independent, in the Times, a little bit in the Guardian. It's more so in the Mail, the Mirror and the ...

It's invariable. I've acted for Naomi Campbell, Loreena McKennitt, Sienna Miller at the time she was complaining she was chastised for complaining, for whingeing about her privacy. Max Mosley was -- every possible claimant, whether it's a footballer, they have all been chastised for complaining, for going to ...

They suggested that Loreena McKennitt had complained about a biography, about all these matters which were true and accurate, and in fact one of the most important parts of this judgment in the Court of Appeal was that the court said and accepted and it was decided at trial that ...

Yes, I believe it is. I acted for Loreena McKennitt in her privacy action which went up to the Court of Appeal and was successful, and the House of Lords, and she was not only attacked frequently in columns of broadsheets and tabloids, but they misdescribed her, the nature of ...

Well, you have to look at the Daily Mail attack on Hugh Grant. It's pretty clear that they're attacking him because of his --

Yes.

Because of this calculation. I mean, this calculation that they make. If in fact in extreme circumstances a newspaper is obtaining confidential information by unlawful means such as phone hacking, deciding cynically not to notify, therefore taking the opportunity to stop it away from the victim, and if they're ...

Yes.

Yes, undoubtedly, and one of the -- I mean, this is why I think an effective regulator, and this is the European Court decisions on this, Peck v UK, but an effective regulator should provide effective remedy, which means an injunction -- possibly compensation, that may be left to courts -- but an ...

Move to Paris?

It is difficult, because a lot of the time you're -- insofar as -- a lot of the time you're dealing with photographers, you don't know their names. You might have their number plates, have pictures of them, you don't know their names. Insofar as no win no ...

Yes.

Yes. I mean I think I've said this many times, I'm not waiving privilege, but when Sienna couldn't take living in England any more, she said "I can't face it any more", I said, you've got two choices. Ignore, fight or move to Paris. Those ...

Exactly.

My view, it was very common, especially for Sienna Miller, but I was meeting her at her home or at one time I was going to court with her and I saw the mob of photographers outside and at one stage I think she was just going to the GP ...

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, I don't think -- I think I've only sued the broadsheets once or twice in the last 20 years, but -- for confidence or invasion of privacy.

The red tops, yes.

Yes, the more intrusive stories. My experience of the tabloids, and I include the Daily Mail in that, although they strictly are not, is that it's the intrusive stories that are of great concern. The Daily Mail does tend to notify. The others tend not to notify, more and ...