No, but that's very helpful. Thank you.

It is.

Yes.

Sure.

Yes.

On that point, sir, could we, before the end of this particular section of your Inquiry, then come back to you?

I think you'd be pleased about that, rather than everything is perfect.

I do, but could I add that nothing ever like this has happened to the press. Nothing as comprehensive on the media. Nothing as far-reaching as this has hit us thus far, and I think you'll find there's a general consensus across the industry that things have to ...

I think, though, if the punishment -- the financial punishments are considerable, that would help.

Sounds helpful, very helpful.

The only -- one point I'd make on that is that once everyone is in, it's important, however -- and you're an expert on civil law -- how that could be -- how they could be contained so that it's so onerous to leave the system ...

Yes.

It's a concern about government.

I think it's not an attack on the legal profession. It's --

Yes.

Yes.

No. That was one of my concerns -- still is a concern, about affordability within the industry defines -- it's another end of the argument with CFAs.

Yes.

Yes. It's worth considering -- I mean, we hosted our own sort of seminar at the start of that consultation process. I don't know how these -- I don't know the outcome yet. It's a bit too early and it's wrong for me to say. It must ...

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Are you talking about -- sorry, sir, are you talking about statute and --

And when it comes to individual bloggers, as you've heard, that's much more of a -- that's a more difficult exercise.

But they should be able to do that, and then there must be some sort of enforcement or -- yeah, it's taken me a while to come around to this, but bringing all this into sharp focus, there has to be a way of imposing sanctions, fines, on the worst ...

Well, that's not been clear to me, that they have the power to go in and demand emails and text messages and correspondence.

I think that there has been so much now written about phone hacking and the Guardian provided a very good service to the industry, and it's the worst example, because in spite of what you've said, I -- we, at the Telegraph, were astonished about the business of phone ...

But where -- readers are not as obsessed as we are about our own business. I often get attacked -- well, I have in the past but I take responsibility for that because I don't, as a habit, give interviews, but I think we tend to write too much about ourselves ...

I would disagree, sir, and I think there are far too many stories about the press on the press, almost an obsession, to the point where --

Entirely.

Yes.

Also, the use of subterfuge -- there was a further story recently on the exam boards where you could use the same sort of arguments but there were no complaints. Anyway, we printed the ruling in full.

Correct.

Yes.

Not exactly, but it was on some sort of fishing -- I think that was the word used. Because subterfuge was used. I didn't agree with the ruling, but because the -- I didn't agree at all with the ruling, but if you're in the PCC, you accept the ...

Yes, it was on a technicality, yes.

Anyone who knows Mr Dacre would accept that he would have laughed at the suggestion that he stop publishing on the back of -- or because of a threat.

Sorry.

Yes.

No, I can't remember the detail. To stop publishing articles attacking my proprietor.

I've never been in favour of mudslinging. There was no agreement with Mr Desmond, but I did receive at that lunch a series of demands from Mr Desmond to stop the articles that were appearing in his publications. I said I'd take those demands back to the editor ...

I would know about them and they don't exist. And there's a -- I have been criticised in the past for trying to ensure that we are more focused on our business as an industry. Some players within the industry are more obsessed with the media space than our ...

We have the largest reader subscriber base in the newspaper business in this country. People who buy the Telegraph have often told me they take the Telegraph, they simply hand it down from generation to generation, and they expect the highest standards from us. But I'm very satisfied our ...

That's certainly to the forefront of our minds. We are probably one of the most customer-focused businesses, and we would not -- in fact, it's very difficult to even change or modify something in the paper without getting a very strong reader reaction. It's a very intelligent readership.

As I said, that's to the forefront of our minds. We have a number of policies in place to protect our brand, to protect our titles and to protect our business, and also it's very important that we make arrangements to -- in the event of an emergency, to ...

On the story, you'd probably better ask that question, I would suggest, Mr Jay, of the editor, but he and his team go through exactly the same procedures. They deal with many stories in the course of the day, but accuracy and honesty are at the forefront of their ...

I was interested in the accuracy of the material, and when both the editor and the legal director were more than satisfied with that, I supported it completely.

I live daily with a concern about the brand reputation of our title and protecting our titles and future-proofing our titles. It's always at the forefront of our minds.

The final decision to publish was entirely the editors', but I was involved in the background to the whole business. Although I was on holiday when the initial £10,000 was spent on a sample disk, when I came back -- and I supported that -- when I came back, I was ...

That's true, sir.

It's probably a question better asked of the editor, but to my knowledge there are very few occasions when privacy is an issue for us.