Thank you very much.

Basically yes, basically yes.

Correct, yeah.

Thank you.

Okay. (Pause).

Well, with regards to if you take the McCanns' situation, if we ever -- unfortunately we're in the same situation again, I think an organisation like the PCC or the MPA should be stepping in when they were back in England to control the number of photographers or cameramen or ...

Oh yes, we do, yes, yes.

Mm-hm.

It was taken and submitted to us, yes.

I think that particular picture, I do recall it, it was put in by one of the agencies. It was by one of the big national agencies, yes.

Yes, please, yes.

Well, it was a unique story. It was the most intense story I've ever worked on. It was one of the most difficult we've ever had to deal with, you know.

That's correct.

Well, if the press officer or the family had contacted us and said, "Look, as of now we don't want our children photographed or used in the paper", we would adhere to that. There's no way we would ignore that.

In hindsight, possibly, but as I said, at the time -- as I said, it's all as it was at the time -- we had photographed the family with their children, there was no objection raised at the time, and on that basis we were happy to continue using them.

I appreciate -- I understand that.

Well, this was a unique situation. This was a unique news story where we'd been allowed to stand there by the family. We had photographed the children with the parents' approval in Portugal. Up to that point, I don't recall any objection from the family about using pictures ...

Those photographs were used in our papers, along with other papers.

Over that period of time, pictures did come in of the McCanns as they were leaving home with their children. They certainly were taken, yes.

No, I think what was done when they came back, the photographers were allowed to stand in one position near the home. I couldn't say exactly where it was. And they were allowed to stand there and take picture from there and I believe that was all set up ...

Not that I can recall. Over the last two days I've been going through the picture library to refresh my memory on this to see what has actually been used and most of the pictures were done by agencies like Reuters, Getty PA, and the local agencies like News ...

Yes. I believe that's true.

Mm-hm.

Yes, we did, yes.

With regards to the two pictures of --

Yeah, I double-checked it again yesterday.

I spoke to him again yesterday.

In this case, yes.

Some way down the road.

I think from the first day we were never directly outside the door of the house.

We weren't actually directly outside their house. By this point, we're way down the road, we're not near the house.

Yeah, I would agree with that, yeah. It's fair enough.

Mm.

Well, after two days -- the story had broken on November 1, we're now to November 3 -- there had been no sign of the mother, Hugh Grant had been there briefly and left, he had made his thoughts known, so it was becoming clear that this wasn't going to ...

That's correct, yeah.

They're a British one, but they have photographers around the world who send them their gear and they put it out.

They're a paparazzi agency. They're a celebrity agency.

I can't comment on that at the moment.

My impression from these, from what I can recall at the time, there was no suggestion that he was harassed, he looked comfortable in the pictures, they were taken in a public place, they'd just come out of a restaurant, walked a short way down and got in a ...

You can't tell from that photograph. You can't tell from that photocopy.

I can't comment on that at the moment.

I don't know. I can't remember. I get the impression they do know -- my impression is they knew they were being photographed, they're walking down the street, they're walking towards the photographer. If I remember from the sequence of photographs, they then get into a cab ...

It's in the street, yes.

Yes, yes.

That's correct.

No. 33 --

I don't have anything.

Yes. That's it, irrespective of where it was taken.

I can't recall off the top of my head.

Yeah, we did, we spoke to the agency as best we could.