Well, I am sure sometimes headlines are -- headlines could be improved upon. But by and large my newspaper takes great care in composing its headlines.

Headlines have to be written very carefully, yes.

Yes, I think headlines have to be treated with extreme care, and on a big story I would normally expect to be consulted on a headline that was going on one of my stories. I think it is probably important that a senior reporter is consulted and yes, they do ...

Yes.

As I say, it is essentially a relatively trivial matter. I think the reason I wanted to just address it briefly is because Mr Campbell spoke about it and because it is also a very direct experience from my point of view of this kind of interaction. It was at ...

Well, it is only since it came out, when Alastair Campbell gave evidence.

Well, I am sure there are ways it could be improved. But I can't say I have my own recipe or formula to do so. All I would say is that I think going down the state road has great dangers.

And I don't have a great overview on media regulation. I don't. My only view is that having worked at the sharp end of political journalism I am well aware of the enormous lengths that governments will go to to get their story across, sometimes manipulate, and anything ...

Well, I think I probably phrased that rather badly. I think what I meant was it is not perfect.

I think the existence of this Inquiry has probably been one of main weapons against that. But clearly the relationship between News International and the government got much too close -- it is not the case now, but it did get much too close. As to how you stop it; prevent ...

Mm-hm.

No.

On a broad range of policies -- not all of them, but broadly, they gave them strong support.

Well, the amount of support that they gave them in that period was pretty obvious, because it was obvious in their editorials. What other support they may or may not have given them, I am not privy to that. But I think we can work it out for yourselves.

Well, I know people who were involved in that flow of information. I am not going to say who they were. But it was an open secret that Downing Street could more or less pick up the phone and dictate an article in certain News International journals. It was well ...

Probably to promote their reputation. But I am well aware of that. If you -- they might want to tell you about some policy they have got or some other piece of information, and obviously you have to take into account what their motives might be. But there is only one ...

Yes, it is, because there are risks in it. If you become -- well, I think it is the same in any profession, really. If you -- there is -- that kind of blurring is a danger and if you become personally friendly with a politician then, of course, it is going to ...

I don't -- I prefer not to socialise out of work with politicians. The only minister who I have been personal friends with was Mo Mowlem. Since she is no longer here, I don't mind talking about it. But that was only because she showed a particular interest in ...

Well, it is the most important part of my job, because my job is obtaining information, reporting what is going on in government and Parliament, and for the most part that information comes from individuals: politicians or officials or others. If you want to get that kind of information you ...

I think it is something you have to live with. But in my experience dealing as a reporter at the sharp end of all this, it is simply a reminder that in an age of mass communication that when the message is so important that if a government gets too ...

I think it is more aspirational, because, frankly, I think it would cause chaos in the age of 24/7 media. It is impossible to get the perfect answer to this. Governments need to have a central message, to have a coordinated response. If they are being phoned every five ...

Yes.

No, I don't think so. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I have heard vague suggestions of all sorts of other ideas which all sound rather cumbersome, because to be a member of the lobby really all it means is you are accredited to report from ...

For example, I play virtually no part -- I never go to lobby briefings. The lobby briefings, their main function is for daily newspaper journalists. There are lobby briefings at one in the morning, at one in the afternoon, and it is a way of daily journalists constantly getting feedback from ...

Well, I think a lot of people don't really understand how the lobby works.

That is what I mean, yes.

Yes.

Well, I don't accept that there is an enormous blurring, not by my newspaper, no.

Yes, we go to great length to comply with it, yes.

I don't think it does because it is absolutely clear that that is what the Prime Minister is referring to.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

I did, yes.

Yes.

Yes, they do, sir, yes. Subeditors normally write headlines and if they think it is something controversial, they will often check it with the senior reporter who has written it. That is true.

Yes, they often do check them with a senior reporter. Yes, they do. They do.

It is standard for subeditors to write headlines, not reporters. Yes, sir, it is.

No, I don't.

I don't know whether you are referring to an article in the Daily Mail about his speech or something else.

Well, I write for the Mail on Sunday, sir.

I think it reflects exactly what he meant.

And in addition, in the article, there was a very strong comment from a Labour official, saying they were opposed to this and talking about the damaging effects they thought it would have. So I think we went to pretty great lengths to make a fair piece, even in the ...

And -- but the use of the word "feckless" -- in fact, in our article, we went out of our way to make it clear that not everyone on the housing benefit under-25 was going to be deprived of the benefit but there would be certain exceptions.

Well, I haven't written anything about his speech, because the speech was on Monday. What I have -- what I did do, I interviewed the Prime Minister and that article appeared in the paper.

You haven't shown me this article and I don't know whether that's online or the newspaper.

Well, having said I am not sure whether I had anything to do with that Mail Online article, I have to say that I think merely to say "At last, an EU referendum on the way" is pretty mild by way of comment.

First of all, I write for the Mail on Sunday newspaper. I do not write for the Mail Online. So I can't answer -- I haven't seen that Mail Online article and I am not sure whether the newspaper article said the same thing. So I would much rather ...

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Well, broadly speaking, yes. But, I mean, if -- when you are writing a news story, there is an element of a story about it, and a narrative. At times, if you were simply to report what people had said and the absolutely bare bald facts, you would be left with ...