Okay.

Of course. Absolutely.

Mm.

No, I just hope that when you come in -- when you consider your report and write it up, that, you know, the importance of public interest and investigative journalism is considered. I'm sure it will be, but, you know, it's -- the Metropolitan Police, huge public body, 50,000 ...

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes.

Yes.

Hopefully I'll come up with something.

Can I -- we will be putting in a submission at the end of this Inquiry, of this part of this module, so I will think very carefully.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

It does.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

Yes, I understand, yes.

Yes.

There's a judgment issue, also.

I haven't come to a decision. I can't -- your Honour, it's difficult, it's difficult. There has to -- has to be change and there will be change, obviously, but actually I am concerned about those safeguards so you don't have journalists being persecuted for carrying out ...

Absolutely, that's what I said. The right balance has to be achieved and that's -- you know, I've been thinking about that these last couple of weeks.

Yes, yes.

Yes, I do. I think I see a bureaucratic problem with that, which is the police have enough bureaucracy as it is. I fear that people who do act in the public interest -- and many of the people I've dealt with have over the years, they do act in ...

Yes.

There are stories I've done in my career and there will be stories which other papers have done exposing things in the police which will not be volunteered out. You have to find it, you have to go and dig, you have to deal with people on a confidential ...

I didn't want to come to this Inquiry today being perceived as someone who's in denial, that everything's been okay, that things can't change. That would be wrong. That's what I'm saying. I believe that the main issues around hospitality, which you've been ...

Yes.

Oh right.

Sorry, which paragraph?

I can't speculate on that.

Absolutely, yes.

No, I wouldn't accept that, although I wasn't involved in the decision-making around stories, because obviously I'm not the editor, but I wouldn't accept that -- I think it was -- there was clearly -- the stories speak for themselves. Across a lot of papers, there was a lot ...

I think I may have written some articles in relation to the arrest of Damian Green, but with that particular story, the arrest of Damian Green, my role was very secondary in the story. My colleagues in the lobby or the home affairs were dealing that so mine was really ...

About Mr Quick?

Yes.

Yes, yes.

Yes.

I did -- I did call the Scotland Yard press office and put a general question in. Unfortunately, they declined to comment, and it was left to my judgment whether to run it or not, and unfortunately I made the wrong call.

Yes.

There was a generic term "police sources", Mr Jay. Obviously I was -- I was misinformed. No excuses from my perspective. Very disappointed from a professional point of view that we got it wrong, and it was right that we put it right.

Yes.

Yes, yes, yes.

Yes, of course. Yes.

Absolutely not. I have always been very keen not to -- something I was going to raise with the Chairman later -- the intensity of meetings with people and any hospitality has to be closely monitored. I've been very aware of that over the years, so not meeting people too often.

I wouldn't say I was often there, no. Often in any wine bar, frankly. If you're seen in a wine bar near Scotland Yard frequently, it doesn't send a good message about your way of operating let alone your lifestyle.

No, I wouldn't say so.

No, but I think, you know, you should be aware that the race claim brought by Mr Ghaffur was a very significant moment that year, symbolic of the divisions in the Met. It didn't just -- it wasn't just about any briefing and counter briefing within the management board.

Well, the management board is so small, Mr Jay. It's not like asking --

I was fully aware of the camps and I had information.