Thank you.

No, I think that we've had the discussion.

No, not very much as yet. There's Operation Tuleta, who are looking into email hacking. But have I seen the evidence of email hacking in the way that I've seen evidence of phone hacking? No, not yet.

The first sprouts of evidence starting now -- it's at such an early stage. So there may be -- there may be something. I'd like to take as forensic approach as possible. So I expect we'll hear more about that.

The idea, which is a little bit of a myth, that you have to have vast sums of money in order to have a lawyer look after your privacy is one of the arguments that was happening in May, where it was: "This is just a rich man's law ...

The press don't want regulation, though, I think, generally.

Yes.

That's my point and I absolutely agree with you. Trying to express it like that, when you're in court and you have applied for an injunction, there are areas that the judge will look at and evidence that the judge will look at where he will considerable precisely ...

But the judges do that. Part of the rule of law --

There are issues in terms of what people agree private information should be. There's -- and where criminality starts and where it stops. These grey lines have come up in so many cases, particularly, for instance, just to give you an example, where -- if a journalist is looking into a ...

Absolutely.

Sure.

The approach that we take at my law firm, at Mishcons, is that we are -- we have a lot of internal discussion about what should happen, and we are lawyers. So therefore, as a first base, you want to respect the rule of law and you want -- and I think ...

Whether it's the PCC, whether it's some other body, whether everybody decides that it's time to obey the law -- which, you know, seems to be strange that you'd even have to say that -- something has to be done so that there is resolution to law breaking ...

One of the things about the PCC is you sort of have to make this choice. You can't have civil proceedings going on at the same time as a complaint with the PCC. So I have tended to go down the civil route, although the relationship that I've ...

I deal with the PCC generally in terms of harassment, generally in terms of photographers. So if, for instance, there have been occasions where I've had clients who have had enormous amounts of photographers outside or they can't exit a building, they've tended to be very effective ...

Breached. Certainly in terms of the May injunctions, there were breaches on the Internet and one of the things that people say quite a lot is: "Oh, well, what's the point of having this injunction? There's all this information out there." But the fact is all the information ...

Breached?

When you say "defeated", do you mean lifted? Or --

I'm delighted. Absolutely delighted. Thank you.

They tend to be cases that have got something to do with criminal law, actually, where there's possibly a stronger apparent public interest in it. So if, for instance, they're reporting some kind of allegation of a crime, you don't -- you tend to hear from the journalists ...

Generally, generally. Exclusive stories by a newspaper I've received prior notification or my client has received prior notification. Sometimes it's not enough prior notification to get a matter sorted. It's very difficult on a Saturday. Saturday can be a very busy day because of the Sunday papers ...

Generally there's notification. I speak generally. You don't always know. Sometimes if there's a very big media story going on, so many -- you get a certain amount of notification and then all the papers cover it. So you -- you know, you sometimes find yourself in a position ...

Yes, it disrupts orderly resolution. It gets in the way and you shouldn't have to be suspicious of your opponents in that way. I'm sorry that they were suspicious of me and the other lawyers. I just wish they'd said so.

I think I have expanded on it a little bit just now. As a lawyer, I feel very much that I want to focus on my cases and my clients and I don't want this mischief from the other side, such as surveillance. It gets in the way. Obviously ...

I mean, absolutely. It's a little bit disconcerting to be sitting next to apparently eminent lawyers in court and to find out that a year ago they had ordered some surveillance on you rather than write a letter, that the people who you speak to on a -- maybe three ...

Yes. When we talked on the telephone, I would sometimes say, "Well, what are you going to do about this? What do you think should happen?" And it was always Tom Crone's position that apart from in this case where there had been one rogue reporter, there was no ...

Yes.

Yes.

That's in addition. I have written to the Information Commissioner about it. I think it's very important to try and make sure that, again, confidential information is handled properly. So the content of that list, of course, would be sensitive and so I've asked the Information Commissioner ...

I amended my statement slightly yesterday and so the date -- just for accuracy, the date changed to December 5. So it's actually inaccurate. It should be probably now four or five weeks ago, just to make that clarification.

Yes, there was a list that was published by Channel 4 ...

No. It seems an incredible thing to do. I'm at a separate law firm at this time. There's no wrongdoing or confidential information being passed from my -- on my part, and certainly -- we've gone through that evidence.

The idea that when there is this kind of criminality ...

Concerns, yes.

Yes.

No.

And still is a barrister I instruct.

That is the issue, yes.

That's right. They weren't keen on the fact that having done a phone hacking case, that we should continue to do phone hacking cases, all of which are actually quite similar, and so they had written to my law firm at the time, JMW, and said that they ...

It would be Sky Andrew, who I --

I think it's me, yes.

As far as I'm concerned, he got on with it. It was something that started in May with me voluntarily giving him the documents and then him volunteering too look, so it was a process that actually I think worked quite well. So no, I didn't doubt at ...

No, I don't.

They were redacted, but in such a minor way. I mean, they would have found it very difficult to redact this information and to keep it meaningful, which of course is another problem associated with keeping things confidential. Sometimes it's very hard to redact things and keep the meaning ...

I'd been told -- yes.

Yes, it was, but I was expecting it.

Absolutely. Absolutely one of the problems, and the same problem occurring in the Privacy and Injunction Select Committee, that in order to investigate, you have to be careful not to expose.

In August, I went back for a meeting with Simon Greenberg and he said to me that -- and very ...

One of the points --

That's right. The initial reports -- I still don't know their provenance, but that started off an Inquiry by Simon Greenberg as to whether there had been any surveillance, and so at a later date -- I think we get to August by now, so I first gave the documents ...

Yes.

No, but it was sudden.