The transcripts of the official inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press. More…
Thank you.
What I would say is I think in all these instances -- and I've spoken to a number of senior officers and junior officers, actually, who have found themselves suddenly, through their work, catapulted into a higher profile -- I would say it's much harder for the family of anybody ...
Not at all.
Well, I do think very senior officers are in the public eye. We are public officials. We make high-profile decisions which will be -- and quite properly so -- scrutinised to a huge extent in a variety of different ways, and I say that particularly in the context, in my instance, of ...
Thank you, sir.
Yes, I understand that entirely, sir.
Yes, absolutely.
Just to give some sort of context, really.
You've heard from DAC Akers, I know, on more than one occasion, and I for one have complete confidence in the investigation that she and her teams are doing. But I think it is important perhaps to say that they are ...
I wondered, sir, whether I just might say something about the difference between what we are doing now in Weeting and Elveden and what was done in 2006.
There's nothing else that I wish to say here. Thank you.
I think the area that I've been thinking about perhaps takes us back to what we have just been discussing in terms of processes. So I here am talking about how and when we review -- I'll use that word deliberately. It's very clear and set out in ...
I certainly will, sir. I know some of the collective views have already been fed into Ms Filkin and to the overall ACPO response, but I will do that.
Yes.
Well, I wouldn't put it that grandly, sir, if I may, but certainly you will hear from more than one member of it over the coming weeks.
We have had a number of conversations as a group about a variety of the issues. I think one of our members is coming to give evidence to you anyway, under the professional standards portfolio, and so you will hear from him and the group.
Yes. I mean, some of the recommendations overlap with things that we've already done, I think, and we in the Met are looking at them as a sort of -- together with the Filkin recommendations, which obviously we've already started on as well. So it is a work in ...
Well, I am a member of the ACPO ethics group, which is looking at a number of these issues, and I've fed my views into that. I'm also a member of the management board of the Met and it will be absolutely crucial that we, as a board ...
I'm really not in a position to comment on that.
I don't think I can comment on that, sir, except to say that it is not unusual for further work to be done after a decision has been made, nor is it unusual for things to be written up subsequently, because sometimes it's not possible to write absolutely ...
And we have to be able to -- we have to say either: "We are absorbing this, we're analysing it and we will update you", or you can say, "We've read it and we realise we need to do a review", but you clearly can't not respond. You ...
I think it's important that one responds in some way clearly. If it is a matter which has been on the front page of a newspaper, then people legitimately can ask, "Well, what are you doing about this?"
Um ...
In the light of hindsight, undoubtedly. If I was sitting in his shoes, I think it's very, very hard for any of us to go back there then, but what is quite clear is that in that process, he didn't get a good understanding of -- I think, of ...
Yes, I see that, sir.
Yes, and I understand that -- I understand absolutely what you are saying. There is a perception issue. There's a process -- what did he do and was that sufficient at the time? And then: was it the right answer, a good answer? And as I say, he has conceded undoubtedly ...
And I completely see that as well. Of course, it would have been better.
Simply to say I know Mr Yates well. I've known him a very long time. I find it impossible to countenance that he would not have done what he saw as his best and the right thing in that situation. He has clearly said that the outcome of that ...
Yes, sir.
Yes, I accept both absolutely, sir. I understand exactly what you're saying and I accept that entirely. I suppose you could characterise what Sir Paul was saying in the way that would often be said, which is: "I've read this article; do we need to do anything now ...
Or short, yes.
And however you get that -- it might be: "I know X, Y, Z", sometimes, because I did that, or it might be: "I need somebody to undertake an enormous review of this for me."
I suppose I latched onto it because it was in the terms of reference that Sir Paul gave, but I'm not sure we are disagreeing that much. I think you're absolutely right. My point is: in order to know whether you now need to do something, you have ...
Right.
Um ... well, I -- from my point of view, sir, as I see it, of course there are times when we have to go back and ask whether we got something right or wrong, but -- and that can be part of any kind of review process, but sometimes you are, if ...
Well, a lot would depend on how much I knew already, as it does in any case. I would want to have the article analysed to see exactly what it was saying, and I would want to get as thorough a briefing as I could about what had gone before ...
Yes, a very brief discussion. From me, it was literally: "Who's going to deal with this?" and if it had come my way, then I would have settled down to work out, on the brief that Sir Paul had given me, what needed to be done, but it didn ...
I didn't see the article until later on in the day, but I was also hearing the radio and I think I'd -- I think I'd had a contact from the press office about it as well, because people were wondering -- needing to be reminded about who had ...
Sure.
No, I characterised it as something that we couldn't ignore and definitely needed to have a look at. I could see that. We needed to have a look at and --
Again, it's almost impossible for me to --
Yes, I do think it then needed a degree of gravity, as you say. We -- all of us are juggling tens and tens and tens of things that need a degree of gravity, undoubtedly, but yes, it certainly wasn't a trivial matter. For sure.
No, not at all.
