Yes. On the back of all four titles, we have a section that says, "We, as a newspaper, abide by the Editors' Code."

Because as journalists we abide by -- we state that in the newspaper. We abide by the Editors' Code. We still do.

Absolutely bound.

No.

If I was on duty at the time, I would have advised as and when.

Yes.

Yes, it did.

Yes, I did.

No. In the -- if it's simply clarifying something not potentially -- well, not -- I was going to say not a big problem, but just simply a matter of a word that's wrong or something, it goes on our letters page, and it's always -- it's been there for ...

All of the editors and group editorial director are part of that committee, but in essence how it works is the complaints filter directly through to the legal department. The legal department will deal with the complaints. If it's a financial settlement, then that goes elsewhere to the -- one ...

Yes.

Yes.

"Don't."

Well, not very often. I think we -- I am a bit more strident than that. I would never -- I don't think I would say to an editor, "The risk is 75 per cent". I don't think we work like that.

Yes.

I would say it is generally followed.

Which in general terms is, "If it's private information, it's private information, and you shouldn't do it."

I can't say what the policy of the title is. That's not a matter for me. I'm the legal department and the policy of the titles is down to the particular editor. If I am asked for my legal advice, I give very strident legal advice.

We just don't do that. We don't do that any more. If it's private information, it's private information, and that's the advice I give.

We're talking about kiss-and-tell now, are we?

Well, if there's a story about somebody's medical history or something like that, we absolutely say, "Under no circumstances should you print that information", or -- but obviously there are a lot of stories that we get through celebrity PRs and there are a lot of things that come ...

Yes, of course I do.

Give me an example. What do you mean?

Yes, I do.

That is fair, because I expect that when I'm presented with a story or some copy for legalling that the journalist will have done their job and that those facts will be correct, and if there is a legal problem with any of them, then I ask them, "Where ...

No.

It's not that I'm not bothered about it.

Yes.

Mm.

Mm.

Of course I am concerned with accuracy, but if someone presents me with a story which says anything, you know, "There are 5 million people standing outside this building", I wouldn't necessarily ask them to go out and count them. You know.

Yes.

But of course there are certain photographs that we have that are taken on yachts, especially in the summer season, and there are all sorts of people who parade around on yachts and some of them want to be photographed and some don't, so there are all those considerations ...

It depends whether it's information or whether there are photographs. If there are photographs, I ask who took them, where did they come from, how did they come to be taken, is it a member of the public that sent it in, where did you get it from, what ...

Mm.

I don't fact check, because if I was fact checking, I would be there all day and that's for the journalists to do, but if I read a particular story and there is a fact and I wonder whether it is true or not, or if it isn ...

Every time I think that there might be a problem with the information I've asked them "Where is it from? Who gave you this material? Where did you get it from?"

No. No, because I wasn't even told that we'd ever used anything in connection with Glenn Mulcaire, so ...

When I asked the questions of the editors and news editors, the name never came up. Any company associated with him didn't either, so --

We didn't.

Mm.

We've done what we can. In my statement I did try to put it into a bit of context. I think our total spend on these types of searches in the ten years that we did was about £115,000. I had a look yesterday with the managing editor ...

This is just an explanation of some of those things that we did find. We asked them to have a look at certain names that were perhaps of interest, so you can see at 1693 there's a mark A, which says:

"Natasha Murat."

That's a day rate, so ...

It is. The writing on the sheet here is -- I believe it's one of our accounts department, and we asked them to marry up the amounts with the entries that had gone into the computer, and they tried to get what they could, sometimes they couldn't find anything ...

Mm-hm.

Mm-hm.

It's very difficult to tell from the lineage sheet, marrying up the article, what information was gleaned or what they asked Express Locate to do.

Mm-hm.

Mm.

A lineage sheet is -- I'm not sure I can do this in a sentence or two. It's what -- whoever is responsible for the accounting on the day on the newspaper on the news desk. So it could be the news editor or one of his deputies, and every ...