Thank you very much indeed, sir. Thank you.

No, it wasn't -- because I was on holiday, it wasn't listened in to by my principal private secretary, but I did relay the content of the conversation to her afterwards.

I was shocked, as I've told the Inquiry, and I was quite upset by the information that I had been be given, but I also know, because this is in my character, that I asked what I could do to help and what further steps I needed to take ...

No.

No.

No.

The -- no. My recollection of the conversation is that the purpose of the conversation was to inform me that my phone had been hacked.

I didn't, no.

I'm afraid I can't recall and I haven't got a record of the name of the second officer.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Mm.

Yes.

I think that is absolutely fundamental, and cross-party agreement on the long-term future of the settlement that -- in relation to the future of press regulation that arises from this. I think it would be a great pity if, in ten years' time, we were not able to look back and ...

Yes.

That's excellent.

Yes. I'm very glad you say that, because I think that broadening the recording of contacts as a requirement of the Ministerial Code and the proper capability within private offices and so forth to make sure that happens would be valuable.

I think the next thing in relation to ...

Yes.

I think I've set out just some pretty simple, straightforward interim measures to increase transparency and to try to debunk this now pretty established perception that somehow the media and politicians operate a conspiracy of the two parties and the public are sort of eavesdroppers on this conversation. So ...

I think I probably saw James Murdoch maybe twice a year, and I suppose this is -- I mean, there are two -- and in a way, there are two stages. One was in discussion about the Communications Act, the BBC charter review and digital switchover, and the second was more latterly ...

That's -- that is true, but so too if you had gone to a Trinity Mirror party, you would find certainly some the same people there. I mean, if you're thinking about the Prime Minister, prime ministers accept invitations from media proprietors. Now, Matthew and Elizabeth are not media ...

Well, in that anybody, if they're honest, would like to go to a great party, the answer's yes. But important in the terms of: "Is this my only chance to have a conversation with the Prime Minister or to meet Mick Jagger", or whatever else it may be ...

Well, you know, it was Elisabeth's -- I remember Elisabeth's 40th birthday party very well. I met a lot of friends there. It was -- I had a lovely evening. And similarly, I was only at the party last July quite briefly, and then briefly at the Sunday sort of ...

Well, I wouldn't say he was a vital intermediary, nor did this introduction lead to anything. What actually happened was that -- and this is why I think that prior publication of guest lists would be valuable. But I mean, what in this case actually happened was that I was ...

He is a friend, yes.

Well, there are -- there are sort of -- there are gradations of media friends, if you like. People who are more friends than media, and others who are more media than friends. And so, with my -- with my close friends who were or are journalists, they are friends, but I -- as ...

Yes.

Close personal friend. And his wife, more particularly.

That would be right.

Probably, yes.

A dozen?

It's -- in the absence of my ministerial diaries, what I've done is to go through my rather dog-eared Filofax diaries for the last eight years, what I have of them, and they are incomplete, and for the -- to help the Inquiry, I've just drawn up a list ...

Yes.

Certainly I think you -- as I've tried to do for you and my ministerial diary would have recorded, to record the range of journalists with whom I had lunch or dinner, and certainly in my own case, my private office used to always tease me about -- because I always ...

I think that -- again, this is obviously a question I've thought a lot about in the context of this Inquiry. "Cosy", "close" are not actually terms that I personally would use. I think that there are rules of the game and certainly I hope and I think that overwhelmingly ...

I -- I don't think it was -- I don't think it was only that that led to a breakdown of trust in the public. I do think that we were always too reliant on the support of newspapers, and I think that in the context of everything I've ...

The wilderness years, yes.

I think they were in part, and I think -- "spin" is a derogatory term. I mean, what we determined to do, really from the time that Tony Blair became leader of the Labour Party in 1994, was to speak as far as possible with a consistent voice and to -- perhaps ...

I think I was very careful with what I said, and obviously -- you know, obviously as a Secretary of State, I was constantly asked by journalists about my view on -- for information and my view on specific issues.

I did -- I suppose I always travelled hopefully and optimistically. I did ...

I think that's always a risk.

I couldn't understand -- I -- I would be very happy to send you a further note on that in order that the note is entirely accurate but it would require me to undertake, again, some quite detailed research about the press coverage at that time.

Oh, stuff appeared in the Daily Mail, in the Evening Standard, in the Sunday Times --

Well, I -- this went much -- for me, in 2006, it went much broader than just News International, because I kept on reading stories and could not understand where they'd come from. Not just in News International papers but in a range of other newspapers. It was as if my ...

My understanding is yes. I would also, for the sake of completeness, add in relation to that that because at the time of the beginning of Operation Weeting, News International admitted hacking my phone, we didn't do as exhaustive a trawl of every edition of every newspaper, but I ...

Yes, it does. It does, but at the same time I sit along -- I place alongside that my passionate defence of a free press, about which I would love to have a chance to express some views, and the fact that I mix regularly with journalists, but it's always ...

Yes, it does.

It's quite --

Behave appallingly, yes. I mean, throughout this time as well, I was getting -- rather, before this, at the time of the Communications Act, which, when I refer to ambient noise, is important -- you know, I was getting quite a clinical beating from the Daily Mail every day about the Licensing ...

I think that we have some exceptional journalists in this country, and, you know, just as I have no expectations of what, in my terms, would be fair treatment from the media, you live with that, and I take my sense of authority -- you know, of -- if I do my ...

I think probably yes. I mean, I've never wanted, in relation to the public concern about this, to focus attention on me and what happened to my family and what its effects were, because I certainly don't want to be a focus of public sympathy or anything like ...