No.

I think Finland is. But it's very high.

Yes, it is.

If I could say in relation to that, when the subsidy scheme was developed in Sweden, there was very considerable opposition from the Conservative Party, on the grounds that that was a threat to press freedom. 40 years later, all political parties in Sweden support the operation ...

I think there has to be clear criteria. So, for example, if a local website applied for a grant, it would have to have a certain level in order for it to be eligible to apply. So there has to be a clear demonstration that there is a level of ...

The Public Media Trust is the body that would promote diversity in the press. It would fund investigative units like the Bureau of Investigative Journalism. It would fund jobs for young journalists in a way that's been developed in the Netherlands, and it would also promote new start-ups under ...

Well, the problem is essentially that advertising is increasingly being decoupled from the production of journalism, and that is the underlying crisis, the cause of the crisis.

So one response is to say that it is desirable to have healthy journalism. How can you have healthy journalism where you look ...

No. So the levy would only be for market leaders -- sorry, for -- let me retract.

The levy on social media and search engine advertising would be restricted to that, not to other forms of Internet advertising. And the thinking behind that is there's been an enormous migration of advertising ...

I understand. The temptation is to bite off what one can chew and leave the rest for another day.

If one goes back to the second Royal Commission on the Press. They regretted the way in which daily and Sunday papers were being bundled together. And they saw that as ...

I understand entirely the point you are making. Let me nonetheless put the case for this. Then let me put --

Yes, it would be. So the Mail and the Sunday Mail -- the Mail on Sunday -- would be separated. And this may seem a very extraordinary policy to propose.

Sell their properties. So in the case of News International, it will be divested of those papers that enable it to come within the 20 per cent target. And that would almost certainly lead to a form of ownership that has more dispersed shareholdings, which would be enormously in the ...

They will simply have to sell their properties.

The simple answer is history. Our competition policy has failed. If you're faced with a situation where no major newspaper acquisition has been stopped, clearly something has to change.

Ofcom is a deeply impressive organisation. Its research is wonderful, and the people I have met in it are very ...

That's correct. And the thinking behind that is not a single acquisition of a major newspaper has been denied in the last 46 years. So if the Leveson Inquiry is concerned with a policy for supporting plurality, which I submit is in your terms of reference, then it must ...

Yes.

Yes.

That's correct, yes.

They have a very clever scheme. Nobody would pay any attention to one investigative unit, so they form a partnership. So they had two exclusives this week with the Guardian, which was splashed over two pages on two successive days, which was then picked up by television.

So they operate ...

It's one example of an initiative that was supported by a small amount of money. It's a separate investigative journalism unit, and it has been spectacularly successful. The stories run this week on the influence of banks, on the politicians, the FSA and the Lords all came from ...

No, that is one beneficiary of such a scheme.

The levy would be levied in a way that all levies would be levied. The money would go towards the Public Media Trust, and the Public Media Trust would be the agency that would allocate funds to support diversity.

That's correct, and the idea behind that is Channel 4. Channel 4 was set up on the basis of a transfer of resources from ITV to support a minority channel, Channel 4.

So a levy on market leaders is designed to support greater diversity. In a strange kind of ...

That would be right. The biggest sanction that could be taken is a motion of no confidence. At universities, vice chancellors are exposed to a motion of no confidence from time to time. They generally ignore those votes of no confidence, but nonetheless it's a warning shot, and it ...

Exactly.

The editorial panel would include both management and editorial staff. The proportions haven't been assigned. But the basic point that is being put is that press groups shouldn't only operate at the behest of very powerful individuals. And it's very important that staff and editors have a ...

So there would have to be an editorial panel established in all leading market organisations.

Yes, that's right.

The intention essentially is to ensure that staff are -- participate in a consultative way with decisions in a company. And the intention is also to strengthen the position of the editor and to ensure that the editor is oriented towards journalists.

This I think does connect to the issue of ...

Yes. We just thought the local press was an unbelievably complex area, and the problems of definition and the problems of intervention required very detailed knowledge, and we therefore didn't wish to offer a proposal, and shifted it to Ofcom.

Which page is this?

Yes. In the case of public service obligations, one of them we propose is to strengthen the position of the editor, and make the editor more oriented towards his staff.

That would seem to me to be a proposal supporting the independence of the press that falls within the reference ...

A policy that is designed to support plurality would seem to me to connect with proposals designed to promote plurality.

Can I respond to that?

This is the best measurement which is objective, rather than influenced by political or party considerations that we came up with.

I understand the point you are making. I would say in response to that that the editor of the Guardian can't swing an enormous media influence behind a government or launch a jihad against the Government. Murdoch can, Paul Dacre can and the Mirror Group can.

The status of ...

That is true. But in response to questions about use, the Internet is not a major source of news. It's a major source of entertainment. But the point you are making nonetheless is correct.

The Guardian's status is enhanced by its presence online.

Yes. To be brutally frank, the Independent and the Guardian have tiny circulations. They don't correspond in terms of their position to large groups like News Corporation, Trinity Mirror and Daily Mail.

That's correct.

There are major players in the media that have a dominating influence. If we take the press with which we are particularly concerned, we have a situation where you have major press oligarchs who make tacit deals with Government, who, at the behest of a small number of people, can ...

Anywhere from the world. So it's unique visitors' traffic in relation to UK news and information websites, as derived from Alexa.

It's unique visitors as defined by the Alexa measurement, and it replies to visitors to UK websites that could come from anywhere in the world.

Sure.

Yes. That derives from the Enders Analysis. They propose that there should be a limit of 15 per cent of the core media industry. And they define it in terms of revenue.

So, for example, BSkyB has a 14 per cent share of the core media industry revenue, and is ...

Each of the respective markets. So there are two proposals: one, a limit on cross media ownership, and the second one is obligations that arise from a 15 per cent share of specified sub-markets, which are national newspapers, television, radio and the Internet.

National newspapers, television, radio and the Internet.

It's 15 per cent of specified markets.

Right. Essentially market leaders have 5 per cent share of the respective markets, have a very privileged position. And in response to that, they should have public duties. This is an extension of the regime we have for commercial broadcasting. Major commercial broadcasters have public duties, and we are essentially ...

Yes.

Well, I think the role of the press shouldn't only be defined by consumer demand. The press has a democratic function, and one of the functions is to act as a watchdog. So my response is yes, the point you are making is partly true, but nonetheless the press ...

I'll speak up.

The symptoms would be unethical journalism, cowed politicians, a distorted national debate, closing newspapers. Causes -- well, there are multiple causes, everything. But one cause we focus on is media concentration that produces a culture of impunity that breeds unethical practice, a centre of power that intimidates politicians and leads to ...