I was just going to go back to your original question. I really don't think we should try to pretend, and I hope that I haven't, that the teaching of ethics is really the important influence on how people behave. How people behave is determined by the culture of a newsroom, basically. That's the fundamental influence on what people do.
That culture is formed by a whole number of things: the competitive situation, how competition is understood, signals from the top, law and regulation, to mention only a few. And you can't -- I mean, you can tell people about what they might be about to face, but for me the central issue is producing incentives that will work, above all, in popular newsrooms, which popular newsrooms will actually sustain and make happen.
I think I'm trespassing on the next bit of the discussion, and I'm opening a very wide ... but for me, that's the essence of the issue.