The transcripts of the official inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press. More…

I agree with a great deal of what's gone before. I think we need to remind ourselves that there's a big issue of public trust here, and public trust in journalism has been very badly damaged in the past few years. I think that the remedy has to be seen to be radical. That's all the more the case when we have the history of the last chance -- I'd go back further than Steve. I think you go back to the first Royal Commission, 1946 to 1949, I think, which reports, recommends the setting-up of a Press Council and it takes three and a half years before the press -- and an awful lot of leaning on and threats of legislation before the press will set something up.

That, if you look through the history, and this is another thing that Hacked Off is doing, that sort of conduct is repeated and repeated. We're in that position now. We can't let it happen again.

A new step has to be taken and something that has to show that we take this seriously. This isn't about journalists dealing with journalists or journalists dealing with politicians or journalists dealing with the police. This is about journalists and the public and about the quality of life in Britain and the quality of information we get in our newspapers and so forth, and there has to be appropriate remedy to what has happened.

I don't seek any Zimbabwe solutions. I agree entirely with George that the biggest changes will happen in the newsroom cultures and that a good public interest defence will help to engender that, although the effects, as you say, will be much greater in some papers than others, but we need to see something which says that this industry is putting itself right or being put right after this car crash that we've had in the last few years.

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