That is what you are saying, yes. I am saying that, as editor-in-chief of Associated Newspapers, who had looked into this matter -- I wasn't the editor of the paper concerned -- I've spoken to the editor who assures me -- and I know what you're trying to say, that he was using phone hacking. He categorically denies it, as I categorically denied it the other day. He assures me that this piece was obtained by legitimate journalistic methods. He has explained to you and it's been explained to this Inquiry that the author of the piece, Katie Nicholl, the diary editor of the Mail on Sunday, wrote this piece drawing on evidence provided to her by Sharon Feinstein, a long-time, very experienced senior showbusiness writer expert, who in turn drew some of her material from a source in the Grant camp, who she had used before and had always found to be impeccably accurate. In this instance it wasn't, and that was the basis of this article, or these three paragraphs in the article.