The transcripts of the official inquiry into the culture, practices and ethics of the press. More…

I think it's too crude to put it like that, with respect. What would happen is we would meet, we would have conversations, I'd give him my views, and if he found them interesting or if he found them useful, then I was glad. We talked on a number of issues. He had a number of issues going on at the time. But the -- I mean, for instance, he talked to me about -- and I was interested because it was him -- about the scale -- sorry, he was trying to do two things at the same time in the Met. He was trying to end tenure, which was a very important thing in the Met, whereby effectively an officer would get a job and it was pretty much theirs for life.

At the same time, he was tackling serious issues of corruption, and he believed there was a parallel -- there may be a link between the two. He was in the midst of trying to bring an end to tenure, with the knock-on effect of helping disrupt corruption, and this was being met with a pretty strong dirty tricks campaign amongst certain elements of the police who didn't want it. He had particular problems, I remember, with the Flying Squad at -- I think it was called Rigg Approach or somewhere like that. So we would talk about those issues, and as a result of that, one of the things I said to him was: "You should come out with it. You should tell London. You should tell Britain how big a problem this is, that it's not just you sort of tinkering around for financial reasons, that there it is a problem."

So we did a very big setpiece, exclusive interview, me on him, in his office, that was a splash and spread in the Sun, followed up BBC, Guardian, et cetera, places like that, that spelt out the fact that he had -- they feared they had 2-300 corrupt officers in the Met and he was determined to root it out. And so it was a big PR campaign for him. He was setting his stall out to the nation but also to the corrupt officers and also to the sort of local government in London, to say, "This is a big problem. It isn't minor tinkering, as it's been led to suggest; it is serious."

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