There was a bit of gossip about it. It had been around, may have even been in a gossip column. But when we actually met him -- I was trying to recollect how this happened, but one day he ended up in our office. I think he may have been visiting another newspaper and had been invited, if you like, by whoever was accompanying him, to do a tour of the building, and he ended up on our floor. I have a vague idea Tarique Ghaffur was with him -- no, that may have been a separate moment. But he came in and it came up in conversation and he said, "I don't know how you can call him the chief -- he's not the chief any more; I am", which was vaguely funny, I thought.