Well, his job was the DPA. We were a newspaper, so he'd be the guy we dealt with. You know, on particular story-type levels, it -- I didn't deal with that. I dealt with it pretty much at a strategic level. It was pretty much dealt with by the news desk, Lucy Panton -- they all had his phone number. They all knew Dick. He wasn't some shrinking violet. I didn't need to get involved in these things.