This is really difficult, because I just find it -- John Stevens is an officer who worked for 40-odd years in the police. He lived his life, 20 years, as a target for IRA assassination as he carried out the Stevens 3 Inquiries. He was the man who was the gangbuster in Northumbria. He came down here. He bust corruption in the Met. So the suggestion is that this man of integrity, of experience, of immense crime-fighting ability, is going to be seduced by me taking him down to Cecconi's and having steak and chips and a nice bottle of wine? I just can't begin to see where this comes from.
All I'm saying is: have you ever had a working lunch? Have you ever had a working lunch with somebody more than once? Have you ever had a drink at that working lunch? You may well have not. I guarantee everybody in this room just about has and it is the way of the world. That is all I'm saying. I'm not suggesting -- I certainly won't accept the idea that me going for dinner with a police officer is any different from a civil servant going for dinner with a businessman. I see no difference in it at all. I might be wrong, but --